What is the difference between music and noise? [years-dead slappyfight revived]

[jonnyG]

16 pages and I killed the gobshite thread dead. Where's my reward?

[Ogg Vorbis]

16 pages and I killed the gobshite thread dead. Where's my reward?

[TiUser]

Wonder what you've expected from such a philosophical thread?...

Bored? What about a slight change? "What's the difference between sex and music?" LOL

[eduardo_b]

Things we take for granted turn out to be terribly difficult to define. There are many connections made simultaneously that contribute to how we perceive sound or color (or even sound as color), but these cannot be encapsulated into words that render a universally agreed upon definition. Even a common definition is open to interpretation, turning that which seems exact into something that is any but.

[jancivil]

The problem with wavelength is that it does not take perception and each individuals feel about color into consideration - it's just technical.

Just technical? Wait, so the definition of the standardized pitch A as 440 Hz. is a bad definition because it doesn't take perception and each individual's feel about pitch into account?

[elmer fudd] You awe a waskawwy won, awan't woo? [/elmer fudd]

What a maroon.

OTOH!!!!

There is the qualia or knowledge argument. I can't find my universe-shaking refutation of the dualists view of the knowledge argument, which would be a TRUE thread-killer, so here's the actual deal which might suffice.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qualia-knowledge/

Summation: Red is red. If you're not color-blind, once you've seen it and compared notes with other people who are not color-blind, you'll agree.

4.2 Complete Physical Knowledge without Knowledge of all the Physical Facts

It may appear obvious that premise P1 (Mary has complete physical knowledge about human color vision) implies C1 (Mary knows all the physical facts about human color vision). If all physical facts can be known under some physical conceptualization, then a person who has complete physical knowledge about a topic knows all the relevant physical facts. But...

[TiUser]

"Summation: Red is red. If you're not color-blind, once you've seen it and compared notes with other people who are not color-blind, you'll agree."

This perfectly shows that we do not need perfect definitions - we just need to agree - and lingual logic works. It still works if we just roughly agree... probably even better - as so we can have discussions then...

It's impossible to find the objective view at something. Finally all is just individual perception. We can not even decide if all around us is illusion or not, so the best guess we can do is agree upon something with lingual unsharpness...

Philosophy is exhausting - I need a coffee asap...

[bebop]

I guess, pain
and speard the word : there's no pain to a musicians room

[AKJ]

structure

[Ogg Vorbis]

structure

Language and animal communication has structure. A dripping faucet has structure too, I guess.

[AKJ]

structure

Language and animal communication has structure. A dripping faucet has structure too, I guess.

I did not say everything that has structure is music. The question was what is the difference between music and noise and that is indeed structure. The difference between animal communication and music would be different although to some various kinds of animal communication is indeed music.

[vurt]

various kinds of animal communication is indeed music.

no it isnt, its noise that sounds musical, not the same thing.

[vurt]

ps: red, is the opposite of blue. sometimes.

[Ogg Vorbis]

structure

Language and animal communication has structure. A dripping faucet has structure too, I guess.

I did not say everything that has structure is music. The question was what is the difference between music and noise and that is indeed structure. The difference between animal communication and music would be different although to some various kinds of animal communication is indeed music.

Sorry, I don't have one of those keen logical minds.

I wonder what is the difference between music and structured sound which is not music?

[TiUser]

ps: red, is the opposite of blue. sometimes.

The opposite colorimetric color to red is cyan in the usual 3 color system - always.

However I am not surprised and I already said that the technical blue (additive component) vs. cyan (subtractive component) is not very well reflected in everyday language...

So more red is equivalent to less cyan.

Finally these things are pretty technical...

[vurt]

ps: red, is the opposite of blue. sometimes.

The opposite colorimetric color to red is cyan in the usual 3 color system - always.

However I am not surprised and I already said that the technical blue (additive component) vs. cyan (subtractive component) is not very well reflected in everyday language...

So more red is equivalent to less cyan.

Finally these things are pretty technical...

the doppler effect, in the light spectrum, objects coming towards you, blue, objects moving away, red. i did say "sometimes".
technical enough?