Couldn't find anywhere else for this. Maybe this topic is mildly taboo, as Cantabile apparently already has everything most users need, and the last thing users want to see is Cantabile becoming "bloatware".
Third-party plug-ins remedy lot of the miscellaneous Cantabile feature requests I've seen, and that's a good thing, of course. Why jam another feature into Cantabile that most users don't need, when the feature can be had via a plug-in?
Anyway, here's my Feature Request:
I love it that Cantabile has (multiple track) synchronized audio and MIDI playback, but how about VIDEO PLAYBACK?
This might seem like an odd request to some, but it seems quite relevant to me, given the recent surge of "performance artists" that incorporate video projection into shows. I've been displaying video at shows since the late 1980s (originally using ridiculously huge and heavy stacks of CRT "videowalls").
I don't need anything fancy - no live mixing or effects - just a single video output feed for projection, but playback must be triggered by Cantabile (not vice-versa). Of course, the video window must "float" (non-docked) so it can be shown full-screen on a secondary discreet PC output (e.g. laptop HDMI out). Also must support one or more common HD video file formats.
Maybe someone knows of a VST plug-in that can make this happen? I've looked, but haven't found anything workable.
And, yes, I know DAW applications like Sonar can do this, but I need something like Cantabile - streamlined for live performance, with fast song switching ("Sessions" and "Set Lists"). A lot of young artists use Ableton, but, to me, Ableton is more of an "instrument" unto itself, rather than a dedicated host for virtual instruments and prerecorded sequences.
Thanks in-advance.
Cantabile Feature Requests
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- KVRAF
- 2310 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Germany
Also I do not desperately need that for myself I don't think it's an cumbersome idea for a performance software.
There is another thing performers on stage might like - light show control. I know not much about this except that this can basically done via special midi tracks too...
Anyway, I think it's serious to discuss everything one might like for a stage performance... unless it's about big shows where separate systems - and individual people operating these are the better choice.
There is another thing performers on stage might like - light show control. I know not much about this except that this can basically done via special midi tracks too...
Anyway, I think it's serious to discuss everything one might like for a stage performance... unless it's about big shows where separate systems - and individual people operating these are the better choice.
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...
...and keep on jamming...
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 14 posts since 13 May, 2010
Good call, TiUser.
Cantabile, having MIDI sequence playback capability, is ready to rock for automated light show control, and it's not that complicated at all.
I picked-up a small Lightronics TL-1640 lighting console
(NSI Microplex protocol) on eBay for only 20 bucks, and it's easy to MIDI program. Of course, you still gotta buy all the lights, stands, dimmer packs, and cables.
The lighting console has MIDI in, out, and through ports. You simply connect it to your MIDI interface as though it were a keyboard. You start your MIDI sequence recorder, and operate the console manually, while listening to a reference track of your song. When the sequence is played back, the lights will respond as they did when the sequence was recorded. Of course, you can tweak the MIDI lighting sequence to your heart's content using a MIDI editor.
You can get more elaborate with MIDI lighting control, but you get the basic idea.
There are other non-musical things you can control via MIDI sequence playback. Using MIDI to contact switches (which have become dirt cheap) you can control virtually anything that has an electric motor: stage curtains, motorized screens, even hydraulic lifts.
The "Earthquake" ride at Universal Studios was 100% MIDI controlled via the old Cakewalk for DOS, including the crashes, floods, and explosions. My stage setup isn't quite that elaborate, but, if I ever get signed, WATCH OUT!
Cantabile, having MIDI sequence playback capability, is ready to rock for automated light show control, and it's not that complicated at all.
I picked-up a small Lightronics TL-1640 lighting console
(NSI Microplex protocol) on eBay for only 20 bucks, and it's easy to MIDI program. Of course, you still gotta buy all the lights, stands, dimmer packs, and cables.
The lighting console has MIDI in, out, and through ports. You simply connect it to your MIDI interface as though it were a keyboard. You start your MIDI sequence recorder, and operate the console manually, while listening to a reference track of your song. When the sequence is played back, the lights will respond as they did when the sequence was recorded. Of course, you can tweak the MIDI lighting sequence to your heart's content using a MIDI editor.
You can get more elaborate with MIDI lighting control, but you get the basic idea.
There are other non-musical things you can control via MIDI sequence playback. Using MIDI to contact switches (which have become dirt cheap) you can control virtually anything that has an electric motor: stage curtains, motorized screens, even hydraulic lifts.
The "Earthquake" ride at Universal Studios was 100% MIDI controlled via the old Cakewalk for DOS, including the crashes, floods, and explosions. My stage setup isn't quite that elaborate, but, if I ever get signed, WATCH OUT!
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- KVRAF
- 2310 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Germany
Do you have experiences with LED based lamps?NeoProg wrote:... Of course, you still gotta buy all the lights, stands, dimmer packs, and cables...
Promises are: Less power consumption, cool operation, built in driver pack, smaller and lighter...
...but are these bright enough?
And what about DMX cables and control...?
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...
...and keep on jamming...
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 14 posts since 13 May, 2010
Thread is getting a bit off-topic, but oh well.
My Lightronics lighting console is NSI Microplex protocol, which uses 3-pin XLR cables. DMX (DMX512-A) protocol uses 5-pin XLRs. As far as I can tell, Microplex and DMX are the only two standards that lighting gear comes in these days. Microplex is older, and is mostly used in lower-end stage / DJ lighting systems, and DMX is the "pro" standard. I understand there are ways to bridge (mix) the two systems.
I'm lucky to have a friend that already had a lighting setup that happened to be Microplex-compatible: a lighting truss with 8 sound-activated LED stage lights. Each LED has a 3-pin XLR in and out, and an 8-channel selector switch. I figured-out we could run them off the Lightronics board without any dimmer packs by simply daisy-chaining the XLRs.
As you suspect, the LEDs are not all that bright in a half-lit room, and are only effective in close quarters (each LED has about 30-40 elements). Really not suitable for anything but small venues (small bar gigs), but the larger stages usually have their own lights anyway.
Killer lighting is expensive. For concert-quality, jaw-dropping stage lighting, my last band sometimes shelled-out $2000 per show (basically our whole take) just for SUPPLEMENTAL lighting.
My Lightronics lighting console is NSI Microplex protocol, which uses 3-pin XLR cables. DMX (DMX512-A) protocol uses 5-pin XLRs. As far as I can tell, Microplex and DMX are the only two standards that lighting gear comes in these days. Microplex is older, and is mostly used in lower-end stage / DJ lighting systems, and DMX is the "pro" standard. I understand there are ways to bridge (mix) the two systems.
I'm lucky to have a friend that already had a lighting setup that happened to be Microplex-compatible: a lighting truss with 8 sound-activated LED stage lights. Each LED has a 3-pin XLR in and out, and an 8-channel selector switch. I figured-out we could run them off the Lightronics board without any dimmer packs by simply daisy-chaining the XLRs.
As you suspect, the LEDs are not all that bright in a half-lit room, and are only effective in close quarters (each LED has about 30-40 elements). Really not suitable for anything but small venues (small bar gigs), but the larger stages usually have their own lights anyway.
Killer lighting is expensive. For concert-quality, jaw-dropping stage lighting, my last band sometimes shelled-out $2000 per show (basically our whole take) just for SUPPLEMENTAL lighting.
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- KVRAF
- 2310 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Germany
Maybe it would be helpful if each media player had its own playlist...eas88 wrote:I would like Cantabile to automatically skip to the next song in the Set list after a song has ended!
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...
...and keep on jamming...
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- KVRist
- 69 posts since 2 Sep, 2006
You realize that Cantabile can trigger external programs, and these triggers can be assigned to any event, such as MIDI program change, note/on, CC value, RPN/NRPN, right?
Is there something wrong with setting up these triggers to play your video, say with Winam's CLAMP freeware program, so you have Trigger 1 set to execute external program like "CLAMP video1.avi /PLAY /TOFRONT"?
Aside from the obvious issues with either setting up and managing multiple monitors, or setting/routing video and audio output while rendering VST instruments in a live setting... What could possibly go wrong?
Is there something wrong with setting up these triggers to play your video, say with Winam's CLAMP freeware program, so you have Trigger 1 set to execute external program like "CLAMP video1.avi /PLAY /TOFRONT"?
Aside from the obvious issues with either setting up and managing multiple monitors, or setting/routing video and audio output while rendering VST instruments in a live setting... What could possibly go wrong?
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- KVRist
- 53 posts since 11 Jul, 2008 from Ithaca,NY
Ok, here's one. How about making Cantabile itself a VST plugin? I'd love to be able to load a Cantabile session into Sonar, so I don't have to recreate my settings. Peavey's Revalver, for example, allows you to host third party VST's though it, too, is a VST. I'm using Cantabile lite right now, tho I plan to upgrade soon. This isn't a feature of the higher levels already, is it?
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- KVRist
- 448 posts since 18 Nov, 2002
According to the developer blog, its in the works:Clint Swank wrote:Ok, here's one. How about making Cantabile itself a VST plugin?
Cantabile VST - Work in Progress
A few posts ago I hinted that I might be working on a VST version of Cantabile. This is probably the most asked for feature since the very first version of Cantabile - and yes I'm actually working on it. It's a big job, but I'm making steady progress.
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- KVRist
- 448 posts since 18 Nov, 2002
Sorry for the off-topic of my previous post.
I think that a video capability can potentially impact and compromise the audio flow, which is already a very delicate thing being a pure real time job with a lot of process involved.
The trigger function seems a good solution and if the computer is not capable to handle all that in real time without hiccups, it can be run in another pc.
pd:
small request: replace the "new plugin" line in the rack with a small symbol in the above line, every "new plugin" line in every rack takes a lot of space for nothing.
I think that a video capability can potentially impact and compromise the audio flow, which is already a very delicate thing being a pure real time job with a lot of process involved.
The trigger function seems a good solution and if the computer is not capable to handle all that in real time without hiccups, it can be run in another pc.
pd:
small request: replace the "new plugin" line in the rack with a small symbol in the above line, every "new plugin" line in every rack takes a lot of space for nothing.
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- KVRist
- 448 posts since 18 Nov, 2002
As its the only thread about feature requests that I can locate (sorry if its really offtopic, there are some additional small requests:
Audio level meter per plugin (and not only for the racks) there is room for it and it would be very useful.
2 (or more) additional audio partial sends per rack. To have only 2 sends is very limiting.
Be able to define a range when using the "assign midi controller" to an item in Cantabile. That will help very much to refine the control over it.
Thats all for now
Audio level meter per plugin (and not only for the racks) there is room for it and it would be very useful.
2 (or more) additional audio partial sends per rack. To have only 2 sends is very limiting.
Be able to define a range when using the "assign midi controller" to an item in Cantabile. That will help very much to refine the control over it.
Thats all for now
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- KVRAF
- 2310 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Germany
Well, I think the total under the hood audio path features need a general gui tweak. It's not just about a level meter per rack slot...
More partial sends? I feel this needs further discussion.
What do you intend using these for and how many would you like to see?
Basically I can see two uses: sending audio to global effects like reverb and send audio to monitors. The latter is more a live issue and better handled from a FOH mixer if your band has such a setup. Both are the basic uses for sends in traditional mixer setups for sends. Smaller consoles provide 2-4 sends for that. Only the big consoles offer more and you usually need an extra person to operate that anyway...
The other conventional thing are insert effects - this can easily be archived by adding such in a rack chain.
Ranges for midi controllers is a feature that has been more often requested and that I would like to see as well. When I remember right this is actually only available for assignments to VST parameters but not for midi parameters or cantabile controls like faders.
More partial sends? I feel this needs further discussion.
What do you intend using these for and how many would you like to see?
Basically I can see two uses: sending audio to global effects like reverb and send audio to monitors. The latter is more a live issue and better handled from a FOH mixer if your band has such a setup. Both are the basic uses for sends in traditional mixer setups for sends. Smaller consoles provide 2-4 sends for that. Only the big consoles offer more and you usually need an extra person to operate that anyway...
The other conventional thing are insert effects - this can easily be archived by adding such in a rack chain.
Ranges for midi controllers is a feature that has been more often requested and that I would like to see as well. When I remember right this is actually only available for assignments to VST parameters but not for midi parameters or cantabile controls like faders.
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...
...and keep on jamming...
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- KVRist
- 448 posts since 18 Nov, 2002
Yes sure, the audio path probably needs a deep rework, just pointed that I think its important to know whats the signal level from every plugin and thought it was a small change that could be done without having to radically alter the program, maybe I'm wrong.
About the aux send:
Im very new to Cantabile and probably I have not figured yet how to use it in its full potential, in fact I have troubles in order to know how to organize my sessions, sub sessions, rack presets, etc. Im a bit confused yet.
Anyway for now I tend to use a default session to start and then I insert different racks wich I have already saved with sounds I like to use, so in this default session I woul like to have 2 or 3 racks to have generic effects I use mostly (2 reverbs + 1 multieffects, maybe others) but also I have a rack dedicated to Mobius (a software looper), so I need to route audio from the racks to those default racks in my template session and if I have only 2 I cant do that.
As I said maybe Im configuring my work in the wrong way. Im not yet sure how to organize my "sounds or patches" which mainly are using several vstis (if I use every rack for every vsti then I cant save my "sound" so I think there is not other way to do it). In this scenario I use the main effects in separate racks and so I need to route to them frequently.
About the ranges it was a small request, but I think the midi control and routing needs to be more sophisticated and powerful with more tools to shape a complex control over the vstis. Comes to mind an example: there is no way to convert the velocity note or pitch bend messages to a control message (of course with control over the ranges). I play midi guitar and need to accommodate very careful the midi messages to have a great control over the vstis and effects.
I have posted about my ideal midi control set in another thread (which you participated so probably you remember)
And also mentioned a graphical example about how to do it very easy and very elegantly:
just apply where it says "tone" to "slot" in Cantabile.
Of course its not the only midi control needed, but that graphical approach would be awesome
You dont mix several vstis to create a sound?
About the aux send:
Im very new to Cantabile and probably I have not figured yet how to use it in its full potential, in fact I have troubles in order to know how to organize my sessions, sub sessions, rack presets, etc. Im a bit confused yet.
Anyway for now I tend to use a default session to start and then I insert different racks wich I have already saved with sounds I like to use, so in this default session I woul like to have 2 or 3 racks to have generic effects I use mostly (2 reverbs + 1 multieffects, maybe others) but also I have a rack dedicated to Mobius (a software looper), so I need to route audio from the racks to those default racks in my template session and if I have only 2 I cant do that.
As I said maybe Im configuring my work in the wrong way. Im not yet sure how to organize my "sounds or patches" which mainly are using several vstis (if I use every rack for every vsti then I cant save my "sound" so I think there is not other way to do it). In this scenario I use the main effects in separate racks and so I need to route to them frequently.
About the ranges it was a small request, but I think the midi control and routing needs to be more sophisticated and powerful with more tools to shape a complex control over the vstis. Comes to mind an example: there is no way to convert the velocity note or pitch bend messages to a control message (of course with control over the ranges). I play midi guitar and need to accommodate very careful the midi messages to have a great control over the vstis and effects.
I have posted about my ideal midi control set in another thread (which you participated so probably you remember)
And also mentioned a graphical example about how to do it very easy and very elegantly:
just apply where it says "tone" to "slot" in Cantabile.
Of course its not the only midi control needed, but that graphical approach would be awesome
You dont mix several vstis to create a sound?