can you put a name for this one

[xtp]

1, 4, maj7

no other notes, triad form.

maj7sus4 ???

[tongsong]

http://cnx.org/content/m12402/latest/

[RyanG]

1, 4, maj7

no other notes, triad form.

maj7sus4 ???

Are you working in major or minor?

[C00kie]

Some context (what chords are before and after) would be nice too.

[gravehill]

Seems like a basic quartal chord to me, i.e. instead of 3rds, you have 3 4ths stacked on top of each other.

[kbaccki]

Seems like a basic quartal chord to me, i.e. instead of 3rds, you have 3 4ths stacked on top of each other.

+1 ... quartal voicings can give you nice open harmonies, and the same voicing can be used in many contexts, which is very useful. Word of warning: if used predominantly your chord harmonies will start to sound somewhat abstract, otherwise known as "jazzy sounding chords"...

[Km7]

Context is important. In pure quartal harmony, this is simply a chord build in fourths. However, in traditional, tertian tonal context, it could be a seventh chord with fifth omitted (and perhaps root doubled) and 4-3 suspension.

[xtp]

Some context (what chords are before and after) would be nice too.

ok heres some of the progression I was improvising

if we call maj7sus4 [to give it a name]

then

Ebmaj7sus4, Dbmaj7sus4, Bb13, Ab7b5

Aø7, Dm, Bb13, Bb13 , Ab7b5

Context is important. In pure quartal harmony, this is simply a chord build in fourths. However, in traditional, tertian tonal context, it could be a seventh chord with fifth omitted (and perhaps root doubled) and 4-3 suspension.

In all chords I use except maj and min triads I without exception omit the 5th unless it is altered. So for example if i play a 13 it is 1,3,7,13.

This gives a particular overall tonal sound by having no 5ths.

It also gives me a max of 4 note chords which is also something i prefer.

>> I just want a name to put in my chord book so I know what I was doing when I refer back to it at a later time. <<

[sammy24]

I'd call it an Ionian chord. Short and to the point Quartal is more a description of the type of voicing than the actual notes, like a C major triad can be played closed or open, or even as a spread voicing, but it's still a C major triad regardless.

So-- there's a huge set of chords available that are more easily thought of as a scale than a chord. In other words, the chord has the characteristic sound of a particular mode/scale. Now, you don't have to play every single note in the scale to have this effect, you just have to play the important "color" tones that identify the scale to the ear and differentiate it from any other scales. So for Ionian, the major 7 and 4 are the 2 most important tones, and if you just play those along with the root, you have "defined" this scale.

But there are many, many voicings that are possible to define this scale. Quartal, triadic, cluster, mixed. Some people try to give awkward chord names to each one but honestly it makes a whole lot more sense to just call it Ionian (and then learn a whole bunch of different possible voicings). Check out the book Modal Jazz Composition and Harmony, Volume 1 by Ron Miller for a comprehensive understanding of this subject.

[xtp]

Word of warning: if used predominantly your chord harmonies will start to sound somewhat abstract, otherwise known as "jazzy sounding chords"...

cheers for the replies I'll look up quartal harmony.

Having no formal musical education is a pain sometimes when you have an enquiring mind.

I kept hearing the [Db,Gb,C] triad moving to Bb13, in particular the emphasis on the C note -> to the G note of the Bb13

Question:

in this you say stacked 4ths. isnt it a 4th Db->Gb and a b5. Gb->C is a b5.

if i was playing 3 4ths wouldn't i have to be Db,Gb,B which is a dom7 not maj7.

[kbaccki]

Quartal voicings use both perfect and augmented 4ths... so that would be #4, not b5. If you're playing within a strict diatonic context then your voicings will switch between combinations of perfect and augmented 4ths. For that matter, if you're playing in any context your voicings will switch between combinations of perfect and augmented 4ths to meet the needs of your particular desired harmonies (maj7, dom7, etc. etc.).

[xtp]

Quartal voicings use both perfect and augmented 4ths... so that would be #4, not b5. If you're playing within a strict diatonic context then your voicings will switch between combinations of perfect and augmented 4ths. For that matter, if you're playing in any context your voicings will switch between combinations of perfect and augmented 4ths to meet the needs of your particular desired harmonies (maj7, dom7, etc. etc.).

Cheers. I was actually going to write augmented 4th instead of b5, but the penny still didn't drop that an augmented 4th is a 4th.

[Ogg Vorbis]

Quartal is more a description of the type of voicing than the actual notes, like a C major triad can be played closed or open, or even as a spread voicing, but it's still a C major triad regardless.

I didn't quite understand this part you're saying. If it's a C major triad, then it's tertian rather than quartal. Or did I miss the boat?

[sammy24]

What I meant was, quartal or tertian or cluster are merely descriptions of the type of voicing used. But a voicing is just a matter of orchestration, it does not accurately describe the harmony. A chord made of C-F-B is a C Ionian chord, it emphasizes that scale and no other scale.

I thought of a better example than the C major triad. Take a G13 chord. You can voice it in many different ways, including tertian. But you can also voice the upper part of chord as F-B-E. This is a quartal voicing. Even with a C triad, in first or second inversion the chord is technically a mixture, having a 4th and a 3rd interval (rather than a full fledged tertian voicing). But if you want the name of the chords, they are still G13 and C.

So obviously the voicing has a big effect on the music, but since there are many ways to voice the same harmony, i dont think it's really a harmonic aspect so much as orchestral. Just like your choice of instrument affects the sound of the very harmony itself, in a way, but is really an orchestral decision rather than harmonic, if that makes any sense. (let me know what u think.)

I would agree that all the normal chords in functional harmony are based on tertian harmony, meaning that's where the notes come from. But in modal harmony, the chords don't really come from "quartal harmony", they just come from the scale. And you need to choose which notes to emphasize from the scale, and many voicings are possible including tertian.

[xtp]

I'd call it an Ionian chord.

Since its really a memory reference for the pencil scratchings in my composition notebook this is as good a name as any.

Thanks, but feel free to keep discussing, its been educational for me.