What is the difference between music and noise? [years-dead slappyfight revived]

[mauseoleum]

When louder isn't better you need one:

[Km7]

Funny. It is interesting how groups of people are quick to impulsively jump barking when they meet a different view that doesn't conform to their little group.

Good reasoned argument there, laid out without being arrogant in stance at all...

I didn't know it's arrogant when someone acknowledge or even defend your rights to respond in a free manner, as it appeals to you. Not to mention the questioning if qualifications like that are useful at all. As for reasoning and arguments, there are such in the previous pages. My view is generally parallel with that of Musicologo at lots of points, and a few other posts that resemble it.

Wait a minute, that's supposed to settle everything? You said the word "you" three times in your definition and we still haven't uncovered the fascinating aspects of which side of the sound defines the experience of music...

This was already discussed. Don't you see that this thread is running around in circles? Lots of fans of the minimalistic forumation art here. But I think the trees are preventing you from seeing the forest now. You is YOU - it isn't left like that arbitrarily and anything of what you mentioned can go here.

"you" the composer? "You" the listener? Is it an agreement between the two or is it "imposed" by the composer/producer or is it "decided" by the listener?

So, the composer is deaf and isn't a listener, at least internally? (S)He is like a writer who cannot and does not read? The problem lies in that you are trying to objectively define what is music, but this cannot be done and is a deceiving step for various reasons already mentioned. However, if you still insist on doing that, I can only wish you best of luck. When you are done, I'd appreciate to share the formulae, valid proofs and measurement units for "musicality" with us.

Plus, it is an exploration. Challenging assumptions and axioms is very good for the art. It can clear away debris and bring clarity. Being curious and looking underneath assumptions is perhaps unfashionable, but some of us still like it.

Yeah, it's the usual half-sensical argument people use to continue with the minimalistic beating of a dead horse again and again in threads like that. There is no "exploration" anymore here - this is simply its echo. I encourage exploration, so nice to meet you at the club of the curious (again). However, it doesn't require looped threads, they seldom lead to much novelty and productivity.

Whatever...

Here we are in the 21st century and we are still wearing the stale old clothes of 19th century assumptions about art and artists. We still parrot the same old cliches that music "conveys" the "inner emotions" of the composer and that the audience "receives" the message (or they don't get it). We still talk of "the masses" who are simple single brain-cell consumers of mighty artistic visions hatched from Mount Olympus.

I tend to agree with this one.

Here's what I think is the bad news for all of us great artists...

So -you- think of yourself as a great artist? This is just a sidenote...

What takes place in the brain of an individual when someone forms a unique relationship with sound is a beautiful and psychospiritual mystery and a topic worth 5,000 pages on a forum.

...if it isn't looped.

[robogone]

the audience's reaction -- it's noise, it's music -- ultimately dictates what it's perceived as

No, the individual's decision dictates what the individual perceives it as. Any audience reaction tells you nothing other than general like or dislike which has nothing to do with perception as music or noise.

Isn't the very reaction of the audience linked to 1) it's music but I don't like it or 2) it's noise and I really don't like it?

1. No
2. No

I wasn't aware that large groups of people work as a collective individual unit. Maybe you're thinking of ants. Or the Borg.

[wrench45us]

those early raves on the Borg cube -- well there's plenty of reasons that footage never made it to TV

[vurt]

borg on e?
id pay to see that and i hate star trek!

[hibidy]

i hate star trek!

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!

[Funksploitation]

Music:

Noise:

It's really easy actually - unless you're a self-involved delusional unmusical wank like the guy in the second video.

[vurt]

cheers!
thats pretty cool.

[Ogg Vorbis]

Can be experienced musically...

[Genetic_Junk]

cheers!
thats pretty cool.

Nice. Thanks for link. Wish it was 20 minutes longer.

[mellotronaut]

i haven't read the 22 pages before this one, but the only difference that makes sense to me, is:

'music' is intentionally done, 'noise' isn't

Then how would you account for accidental, unintended music as part of the creative process.

I think, really, in the end the listener will decide if what they hear is music or noise -- no matter what others have to say about it.

the listener is always the one, who decides and the one who discriminates between music and noise. The first one, who listens, is the one, who decides to implement or to drop unintended elements and make them intended by a conscious act, if they are implemented.

[Klemperer]

the listener is always the one, who decides and the one who discriminates between music and noise. The first one, who listens, is the one, who decides to implement or to drop unintended elements and make them intended by a conscious act, if they are implemented.

Now I finally found out, what "typisch deutsch" is . (And I don't mean this as an insult or something like that. It's just that this, if spoken by someone from any country, is typical german to me. Which might not be so terribly interesting to the rest of the world population. I never thought something like this even existed^^.

Funny. It is interesting how groups of people are quick to impulsively jump barking when they meet a different view that doesn't conform to their little group.

Thanks for this, km7. This is exactly what you would find in about 97% of all intellectual discussions here since about 1995. Maybe the good thing with this is, if you are forced to find something, that there are indeed many many little groups, and thus it is easy to hear some barking. (wott? you prefer melodies over noise? watt? you don't? and so on )

[robogone]

borg on e?
id pay to see that and i hate star trek!

I thought it went really downhill after William Shat on Her

[vurt]

borg on e?
id pay to see that and i hate star trek!

I thought it went really downhill after William Shat on Her

ill give you the original series by all means, but yes, every incarnation since (including the films) has been utter and complete soap opera in space!
hidden behind skintight sexuality is a script that would work in any dynasty or dallas or eastenders episode if you remove the dilithium crystal bollocks.

[hibidy]

better than southpark