Halion Sonic

[danbroad]

Before this thread heads further off topic, my simple question stands.

Has anyone on earth, perhaps with an internet connection and a membership of KVR, played with this plugin?

And does flexphraser produce [insert hardware/rack version/soft vs. hardware comparison etc etc etc here - for simplicity's sake I'll say a Triton, because I'm a little jaded with all the Motif talk]-like phrases that play in an accompaniment-like manner?

I don't want a Motif vsti. Neither does TIuser or Anthony, who seem to be looking for the same as I. We all merely wish for a plug that plays like an arranger, not that replaces one.

[bitfreak8]

I just installed it on XP, without any troubles so far.

I have just browsed a few pesets so far, but there are some nice synths in there. Liked the strings to, but I was not to impressed by the drums. Thats probably because i'm not so much into acoustic drums, and it seems like Steiberg focused on those. It also seems to be a bit lacking in some areas, like ethnic sounds, but like someone pointed out there's probably going to be a few add-on banks released.

Loading times a longer than Hypersonic, so no surprises there. Not to bad though, since most presets load in a second or so.

[AdeVanEx]

Before this thread heads further off topic, my simple question stands.

Has anyone on earth, perhaps with an internet connection and a membership of KVR, played with this plugin?

And does flexphraser produce [insert hardware/rack version/soft vs. hardware comparison etc etc etc here - for simplicity's sake I'll say a Triton, because I'm a little jaded with all the Motif talk]-like phrases that play in an accompaniment-like manner?

I don't want a Motif vsti. Neither does TIuser or Anthony, who seem to be looking for the same as I. We all merely wish for a plug that plays like an arranger, not that replaces one.

Hi Dan

I am simply amazed that this simple question remains so difficult for anyone to answer, even over at the steinberg forums.
I will have HS on Tuesday morning so will be able to answer your question then.
I have been playing arranger keyboards for years (and owned most of them) so I will also be able to give you all a direct comparison from HS to Tyros / Korg PA series.

[danbroad]

Ade, I'd be really glad to hear your informed opinion. Thanks very much!

[TiUser]

I don't want a Motif vsti. Neither does TIuser or Anthony, who seem to be looking for the same as I. We all merely wish for a plug that plays like an arranger, not that replaces one.

I don't mind a Motif vsti but indeed what I miss is a complete "software arranger". It's not a too big problem to host some vsti's to play them. The "problem" is what goes beyond. Playing styles with decent sound without in depth editing to make them work at all, clever cord recognition (Yamaha is really leading here), solo harmonizing and similar useful helpers when you jam or play alone.

There are several shareware programs that perform some of these tasks but these are not really professional and fully reliable. Unfortunately I do not know anything like this as VST to put that in my favorite live vst host. So even an OpenLabs machine (a portable keyboard pc) would not help me out...

The problem is not just the components but the combination of all. If you don't want to make original music and cool compositions in DAW style yet still having a cool quality sound it get's difficult with pc based music workstatitons.

Halion sonic seems to promise some of Yamahas technologies like arpeggiators, cord recognition and yamaha top quality sounds that looks appealing to me... just there is no real world demo showing this off. Most demos are just synth sound things I am not much interested in as I already have enough synths.

@AdeVanEx
I am looking forward to this. I sometimes think the DAW producers do not take life playing musicians too serious - especially if it turns into the one man band direction.

[danbroad]

Exactly, TIuser. If Halion sonic is nothing more than a multitimbral sampler, then that'd be the disappointment of the year; it doesn't feature a complete sampleset [very few ethnic instruments, for example], and its sound quality won't compete with the 33GB Kontakt library. It'd be just a 'Halion Lite'. If all it offered was a method of layering 16 different sounds together on one MIDI channel, or across MIDI parts, well I can do that with Sampletank [or Kontakt, or E-Mu's Proteus VX, or....]

A workstation, for me, doesn't compete on sound quality. It offers playability above all else - no keyswitching [because you play with two hands] for example. When it talks about 'multis' or 'combis' or 'performances' it shouldn't just mean four samplesets on MIDI channel 1 - any software sampler can do that, and we're hardly limited by number of instances available to open.

[Megakazbek]

I don't get why you expect any "auto-arranger" functions from Halion Sonic. It is advertised as a workstation, not as arranger.
About sound quality - for example Motif XS quality-wise destroys 33 GB Kontakt in pretty much every possible way. So potentially Halion Sonic can too, especially if the samples and sounds were designed by Motif team. But as still after 2 weeks of release there are no praising user reviews and even Steinberg is ashamed to upload real demos, I suspect it will be a very big disappointment.

[bobbybland]

More audio demo's folks please

[danbroad]

I don't get why you expect any "auto-arranger" functions from Halion Sonic. It is advertised as a workstation, not as arranger.

There's a difference between an auto-arranger and an arranger. Likewise, there is a world of difference between a modern 'workstation' and a multitimbral sampler like Kontakt or Sampletank. I don't expect a Tyros for £200, but my question [just like it has been all along] is this: What is flexphraser and how does it integrate into Halion Sonic?

Once again, I'm trying not to bring the Motif into this too much, because the software vs hardware debate is irrelevant to my question, but... disagreed on the Motif XS - I loved mine to bits, but Kontakt is capable of more realism with careful programming. Where the Motif wins is that you don't have to take 2 hours to program a 2 minute part - again, playability rather than outright accuracy. If all you're interested in is playing a part live, the Motif excels, and beats Kontakt at the listener's ear.

Anyway, all I want is for a flexphraser part to provide a drum groove, and/or a guitar strum, and/or a bassline whilst I noodle a lead on the right hand. 17, 570 views of this thread - no answers yet here or over on Cubase.net. Still, Ade will probably give a definitive answer sometime this week. Thanks again!

[bobbybland]

Any news on when exactly STEINBERG will offer HS2 upgrades to U.S. customers? This has gotta be the worst marketing I've seen yet, whats the reason european customers are able to purchase this long before us? Is there a problem with printing,production? Steinberg should really fill us in. My excitement is slowly dying each day I can't try the thing out,and without much support from Steinberg regarding demo's, or getting any EU customers to post some,it's getting sorta OLD.. MORE audio demo''s please

[djanthonyw]

http://cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=137330

[TiUser]

I don't get why you expect any "auto-arranger" functions from Halion Sonic.
I expect nothing - just that's what I hoped for and I miss in software and what would make me consider getting it. If it's just a lib of sampled synth sounds I am not interested, that's all.

Where the Motif wins is that you don't have to take 2 hours to program a 2 minute part - again, playability rather than outright accuracy.
That's exactly why I am not a fan of current vsti sample libs on a pc. I am not much interested in DAW production, I want something that works when I play it. I want to focus the time I can spend on playing - not on programing. I am no composer, no producer, no sound engineer, no drummer, no guitar player,... and I don't have the time and skill to do all that accomplishing top quality results.

I also have already learned that even the finest samples can not really replace the originals - all the run is finally a bit mad. So whats left to me is things have to work convincing when I play them on a keyboard. Good sound is not just something that works on high end speakers, it has to on PA speakers or cheapoo chunk too - a point too often underestimated with all the high end chit chat here imho.

[bobbybland]

I've owned the TI's,Motif's,Fantom's,etc. etc.. I find myself when owning these boards after a year or so, not using them. Not because they don't sound good,but software for me is more practical,due to unlimited instances,easy routing,less problems actually,and for my workflow,software works/sounds great..
A good room,good D/A is indeed important. The whole hardware vs. software,normally comes down to the D/A in the hardware,and for those without good D/A, well I can see why they may never understand.
Only other difference would be performing,where I can see why hardware usually wins,but in my case,I have a true old skool,master midi controller,and these newer boards don't have poly AT,so why own them? I love my vintage controller. When software is used with great monitoring, it does sound excellent. The cost of hardware doesn't really sit well with me anymore,when for me,there are indeed better options,was hoping halion sonic would answer a gap, in the soft synth workstation dept.

I think the majority of us just want a true workstation,HS2 is no longer supported/nor sold.. A bunch I know are thinking this would be a HS3 type app,but so far it's not exactly looking like it..
The flexphraser has the potential to be cool, no standard GM mode?? Or is it turn on a button,and it works?? who knows,it's best I just wait n be patient and make up my own mind...

Steinberg lets go already huh??

[Uncle E]

Roland/Cakewalk integrated the Fantom VS into a DAW-centric product... but it's still a hardware synth in a physical box. There's probably a good reason for that!

I think you know it already but I'm going to point out the fairly obvious elephant in the room: music software is heavily pirated so it's simply foolish for the successful hardware manufacturers to port their products to software. It would make more sense for the companies that are floundering in this arena, such as Kurzweil or Kawai, to port their goods over since they don't have much hardware sales to lose to begin with. It would also make more sense for a software company like Native Instruments to get into this since it would allow them to take sales from the big hardware companies.

A sorta mega workstation product would be nice in many ways. Something that has a high quality hybrid engine, fantastic sound library like most of the hardware today, some basic sequencing/arranging/auto-arranging/etc. etc., something that can stand up to live performance or weekend songwriting in the B&B without a glitch or a crash... I just wouldn't expect the major hardware vendors to jump at the chance to shoot themselves in their respective feet.

It seems like this is an area where one of the up-and-coming hosts like Energy XT or Bidule could make their mark. They could provide the auto-arranging functionality and then users could use their own VSTi's.

Definately a product opportunity there though for some enterprising developer...

Agreed, or even an enterprising KvR member who wants to sell these auto arrangements in the form of DAW templates. Cubase has the capability to do most of this stuff already, it just needs to be set up right.

[Uncle E]

But compare, say the yamaha dx7 to a PC/Mac running FM8.

I hear you 100%, and yet most people agree that none of the software FM synths sound like a DX7.