Magix Vandal amp sim = Winner in terms of sound quality so far

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There are great IRs around. And the quality of IR loaders differs, too. For example, though I recall Guitarzan, a forum member whom I have much respect for, quite likes ReValver MkIII's IR loader, to my ears it just messes up the sound too much. For transparency, LePou's IR loader is great, because it allows you to "dual mic" similar to how you'd do with a real amp (for high gain sounds, practically a must; lower gain and crunch tones don't need quite the frequency bandwidth in order to sound good).

That said, truth: just talking about the "big two" commercial sims, I haven't used any IRs with Amplitube 3 or with Guitar Rig 4. Their built-in cabs (the comprehensive cab/mic/room system makeover in AT3, and the Control Room) are always great for my needs. Before Amplitube Fender I often used IRs in my own recordings, though for the sake of reviews I'd never do anything that wasn't part of the software itself (should be obvious, but just in case it's not clear). Now, I really don't, even though I have the full Recabinet 2.0 pack which competes quite well for sound with the RedWire IRs. I just don't have to go outside of the software to get comparable sound quality.

In the case of Guitar Rig 4, the Control Room thing is basically a collection of quality IRs that are all in-phase and sound good; getting a good result with it is, as a result, quite easy to do. The IRs that make up the various cabs are high-end signal chains captured very well, and you have ample control over them as far as position in the mix goes and relative volume. Great module, one of the big improvements in GR4 over GR3 (though I did some testing, oh, eight months ago now that showed GR4's Matched Cabinets were improved substantially over GR3's as well).

In the case of Amplitube 3, I just love the new cab setup. It works very well, it's very intuitive, once you become accustomed to its work-flow you should find it very easy to get a good sound. Of all the sims I've used, so far it is the closest to actually miking up a cab - if you know how to use X and Y microphones to get a good sound out of a given speaker cabinet, that knowledge translates better to Amplitube 3's cabinet modeling than anything else out there except maybe Softube's Metal Amp Room (which is limited in that it doesn't give you a variety of microphones to pick from). My opinion, my experience, my ears, my gear - my story and I'm sticking to it.

I like the idea of Vandal's physical modeling for the cabinet. It's a notion which I think has a lot of potential. Just as there's nothing inherently magical about the behavior of a circuit involving vacuum tubes and other parts, there's nothing magical about the behavior of the amp's output electricity into the cabinet, the movement and output of the speaker as it vibrates the air, the effect that has on the microphone, the microphone's own diaphragm (of whatever construction)... All of that can be accounted for mathematically, and thus modeled accurately. I regret that have not had the opportunity to try Vandal to see how well it pulls off the concept, because it's a cool concept. Its realism depends on how well the phenomena are understood and modeled, and what generalizations have then to be made in order to optimize the processing speed for real-time use.

Oh, one more thing, call me crazy but I'm not impressed with the various Nebula cab models around. They don't really sound any better than IRs to me, but they sure do COST a lot more in terms of processing power (and IRs are already relatively hungry for realtime use, depending on the number of taps...). Advocates say that it FEELS better. Well, feel is subjective, you know, I can't judge that as easily as I can judge sound. But then sound is subjective too. :)

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Well I spent a bit of time with Amplitube 3 there & it really has thrown a spanner in the works. I had a play with some presets I made in Metal to compare & its a pretty substantial step up in sound quality. My Metal presets through Amplitube 3 are a lot less brittle & warmer. The Cabs in Amplitube 3 are much better than Metals Cabs & I do like the extended control of mic potion (2 mics!) & room. I had a lot of fun playing with Amplitube 3.

The CPU use of Amplitube 3 is actually a wee bit less than Metal. Oh I'm back to square one now. Amplitube 3 or Vandal..............hhmmmmmmhh..

One other exciting new Amp sim out there is AcmeBarGigs Shred. I think it has a lot of potential & I cant wait to get a hold of v1.5

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Peevy2000 wrote:Well I spent a bit of time with Amplitube 3 there & it really has thrown a spanner in the works. I had a play with some presets I made in Metal to compare & its a pretty substantial step up in sound quality. My Metal presets through Amplitube 3 are a lot less brittle & warmer. The Cabs in Amplitube 3 are much better than Metals Cabs & I do like the extended control of mic potion (2 mics!) & room. I had a lot of fun playing with Amplitube 3.

The CPU use of Amplitube 3 is actually a wee bit less than Metal. Oh I'm back to square one now. Amplitube 3 or Vandal..............hhmmmmmmhh..

One other exciting new Amp sim out there is AcmeBarGigs Shred. I think it has a lot of potential & I cant wait to get a hold of v1.5
ZC I hope you read this, it sums up my "the best amp sim is the one I didn't get" perfectly.

Peevey, I'm fortunate because I have both, being a Samplitude user gave me Vandal and I bought AT3 shortly before I updated to samp 11 pro. Last summer I bought GR3 at the time they had a grace period so I got GR4 free, shortly after that I bought GTR3.5....I dont have a favorite :shrug:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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Hink wrote:Peevey, I'm fortunate because I have both, being a Samplitude user gave me Vandal and I bought AT3 shortly before I updated to samp 11 pro. Last summer I bought GR3 at the time they had a grace period so I got GR4 free, shortly after that I bought GTR3.5....I dont have a favorite :shrug:
This is the reality -- a sad state of affairs for the ol' bank account, of course, but the best scenario is always: get 'em all!!! Especially when each one has its own unique virtues.

Right now, AT3 is my clear favourite, but I'm just a-waitin' on that Vandal Mac demo... :D

However, I use whatever I feel like using at the time, so who can say what I'll select 3-6 months from now, after the ol' software's received a little wear & tear?

(Note: software does not receive any actual wear & tear. ;))

The ultimate effect is something Hink described previously: start messin' with the software 'round midnight, and if it keeps you up until the birds start a-chirpin' and the sky lightens, then it must be good (if not downright AWESOME). :D

(Note: I have lots and LOTS of software that does this, much to my sleeping habits' dismay.)

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vandal sounds so much better than AT3 they are not worth comparing. buy it now!

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Sasha, Is the Demo a 1 time use only.? I had a situation where I loaded and started the Demo... Only got about an hour to actually play it before I had to go for a few weeks with out any access to my DAW. The Demo has expired and I would like to ACTUALLY demo Vandel . From what little I demoed Vandel, I have to say that it won my ( best of ) vote on the user interface and sound right off. I own and use Samp Pro 9 and Sonar, but I haven't kept up with upgrades on either. Unless Samplitude had made some upgrades on the Midi side of life I may not be upgrading for awhile yet.

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I've just been able to spend a lot more time messing with Vandal on a friend's system, and I'm loving it more and more! At first I really liked the dynamics but I thought there was something I was missing from cab IRs - but last night I discovered how great the room reverb is!! That was the missing ingredient - Vandal lacks nothing now, for me anyway (mostly classic "clean" and crunch tones...blues, clasic rock, funky/jazzy unschooled fusion-like stuff, etc..)!!

Really - this is the best direct tone and feel I've got from any hardware or software yet. Plus, when I walk away and come back later, it still sounds great (a lot of my other direct tones would start to sound natural to me after a while, but later sounded very off/unatural). How Sascha gets such quality while being so easy on the system resources is kind of miraculous!!

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dhalfen wrote: This is the reality -- a sad state of affairs for the ol' bank account, of course, but the best scenario is always: get 'em all!!! Especially when each one has its own unique virtues.

Right now, AT3 is my clear favourite, but I'm just a-waitin' on that Vandal Mac demo... :D

However, I use whatever I feel like using at the time, so who can say what I'll select 3-6 months from now, after the ol' software's received a little wear & tear?

(Note: software does not receive any actual wear & tear. ;))

The ultimate effect is something Hink described previously: start messin' with the software 'round midnight, and if it keeps you up until the birds start a-chirpin' and the sky lightens, then it must be good (if not downright AWESOME). :D

(Note: I have lots and LOTS of software that does this, much to my sleeping habits' dismay.)
I'd like to be able to get them all but as always I'm on a tight budget as I'm not really making any money yet from my music. So what it boils down to for me is just having to get one amp sim that covers most of my needs. At the minute I'm torn between Vandal & Amplitube 3. Having had a good play with Amplitube 3 lastnight using my Amplitube Metal presets I noticed a definite bump up in sound quality over Metal. I'm not the kind of person that just jumps on the next big thing, credit card in hand. So I'm gonna have another shootout between Vandal & Amplitube 3 later. Maybe then I'll end up with a definite winner.

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The Vandal MIDI-issues fixed yet also in the DEMO ?
Still waiting for the ultimate Guitar-Amp Plugin !

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Wildpig wrote:The Vandal MIDI-issues fixed yet also in the DEMO ?
Yes. It's working, like I've described in the vid here a while ago (using the Sam11.1 version of the plugin):


We planned to have update & demo online this weekend, but alas, the colleague coordinating that stuff is ill until mid of next week (as it currently seems). Part of the internet staff is working on a shop relaunch at the moment, so there were no extra resources. Let's hope it will be online in a week, as I've already openend another code branch and started working on a new stomp box to be added later this year (with 4 other on my mind). It was just too hot to work on anything serious ;)
Sascha Eversmeier [formerly digitalfishphones]
TOURAGE DSP
croquesolid drum processor- mix real drums fast & focused

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I'm looking forward to a kind of "special offer" for Samplitude 11 (not Pro) users.

I know that there was such an offer for the AM-Suite. I hope that you (Magix) guys are offering this as well for VANDAL.

Do you know anything about this, Sascha?
Last edited by MountainKing on Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The 'less-is-more'-guy ... he's an asshole." (Billy Decker)

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MountainKing wrote:I'm looking forward to a kind of "special offer" for Samplitude 11 (notr Pro) users.

I know that there was such an offer for the AM-Suite. I hope that you (Magix) guys are offering this as well for VANDAL.

Do you know anything about this, Sascha?
Perhaps it's good to write an email to Jörg at our distribution center (samplitude@magix.net). I don't know if there are already such inquiries and according plans, but I do know there's a deal with unimall.de for students.
Sascha Eversmeier [formerly digitalfishphones]
TOURAGE DSP
croquesolid drum processor- mix real drums fast & focused

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MountainKing wrote:I'm looking forward to a kind of "special offer" for Samplitude 11 (notr Pro) users.

I know that there was such an offer for the AM-Suite. I hope that you (Magix) guys are offering this as well for VANDAL.

Do you know anything about this, Sascha?
I thought that Vandal comes with Samplitude 'Silver'.
Is this still the case?

Greg

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siriusbliss wrote:
MountainKing wrote:I'm looking forward to a kind of "special offer" for Samplitude 11 (notr Pro) users.

I know that there was such an offer for the AM-Suite. I hope that you (Magix) guys are offering this as well for VANDAL.

Do you know anything about this, Sascha?
I thought that Vandal comes with Samplitude 'Silver'.
Is this still the case?

Greg
I guess it's the other way around: SAM Silver comes with VANDAL.


And here's the EDU offer:

http://www.unimall.de/product_info.php? ... l-EDU.html
"The 'less-is-more'-guy ... he's an asshole." (Billy Decker)

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MountainKing wrote:
siriusbliss wrote:
MountainKing wrote:I'm looking forward to a kind of "special offer" for Samplitude 11 (notr Pro) users.

I know that there was such an offer for the AM-Suite. I hope that you (Magix) guys are offering this as well for VANDAL.

Do you know anything about this, Sascha?
I thought that Vandal comes with Samplitude 'Silver'.
Is this still the case?

Greg
I guess it's the other way around: SAM Silver comes with VANDAL.


And here's the EDU offer:

http://www.unimall.de/product_info.php? ... l-EDU.html
Silver comes with Vandal here (which is what I meant):
http://www.vandalamps.com/de/shop.10.html

Greg

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