Cleanest most transparent vst compressor?

[aciddose]

what kind of crossovers are you using?

i typically use a 12db butterworth minimum phase crossover for anything i do that doesn't require narrow bands and when mixed back together you get the original signal without any modification at all. (there is only a delay)

i'm not sure what kind of synthetic tones you're talking about or why you'd use any steeper filter in a crossover for something like a multi-band compressor. it might make sense to use a steeper or narrower filter for the side-chain, but not in the signal path.

most of the plugins i've _ever_ tried modified the signal in some way which seemed unnatural and it seems the most popular plugins tend to be the ones which sound the least transparent for some reason. we just need to redefine "transparent" i guess.

[tony tony chopper]

i typically use a 12db butterworth minimum phase crossover for anything i do that doesn't require narrow bands and when mixed back together you get the original signal without any modification at all. (there is only a delay)

with that Linkwitz-Riley you should normally be getting phase smearing (?)

i'm not sure what kind of synthetic tones you're talking about

a simple saw, and steady tone in which phase relationship matters a lot

or why you'd use any steeper filter in a crossover for something like a multi-band compressor

12 to 24dB are common in multiband compressors

[HanafiH]

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... hread.html

Some guys over at Gearslutz have been conducting extensive bench testing of just about every soft compressor you can think of, measuring aliasing and distortion, with lots of graphs and numbers and such. Two very clean compressors included Reacomp and the old Kjaerhus compressor.

[kelldammit]

if the stillwell stuff works for you, why not just go with it, rather than worrying so much about whether something's "transparent" or not?
snag the freebie reacomp as an alternative option for when the "colors" don't fit something the way you'd like...which may be turn out to be never.

k

[MeldaProduction]

Ok, folks, so
I wasn't making an advertisement. I would place some link to our product, right? Please don't attack me, just because you cannot accept a fact that can easily be measured. For some reason I have seen many posts about how this is great, clean and transparent, and I just couldn't stand this anymore, because it laughs at every other developer, who cares about audio quality.

And this is from Maximus web:
Maximus will deliver transparent peak limiting and volume maximization without coloration of the processed sound. However, Maximus is much more than a pristine quality Mastering Maximizer

Sorry but that's simply a lie. It is colorating, hugely and this kind of coloration isn't a nice one, and as a mastering maximizer...


IMHO, ImageLine employs good developers, but they should learn about audio-processing. I have a sad experience - Maximus was the first software I tried from them. They simply did not know anything about crossovers and they did not care. And I have no idea, how could they miss this. What they did is, they forgot to compensate phase between bands, which is like the most basic thing there! Everybody knows that and if they would run an analyzer or listen to the results, they must have heard it...


Finally my definition of transparency, because there are many of them in this topic , so I'd like to add one more.
Generally the multiband compressor is not transparent, it is transparent, when it is not compressing anything. Because if the input level is low, you want it not to do anything to the sound. So what it leaves - the crossover must be transparent, always. Correct?

[MeldaProduction]

i typically use a 12db butterworth minimum phase crossover for anything i do that doesn't require narrow bands and when mixed back together you get the original signal without any modification at all. (there is only a delay)

with that Linkwitz-Riley you should normally be getting phase smearing (?)

Yes, the phase content would be altered, but magnitude (frequency levels) are kept the same (well, there is usually some alteration like <0.1dB, depending on parameters etc...)

[tony tony chopper]

Maximus will deliver transparent peak limiting and volume maximization without coloration of the processed sound.

I could argue that you should be able to read through marketing written by someone else, however Maximus *can act as single-band*, thus, it's true.

(more, it has a linear-phase filter mode, but anyway..)

Sorry but that's simply a lie. It is colorating, hugely and this kind of coloration isn't a nice one, and as a mastering maximizer...

You wouldn't like me to post a sample of synthetic tones passing through your supposedly transparent compressor in IIR mode.. would you? I mean, it's transparent, no one would hear the difference, right?

They simply did not know anything about crossovers and they did not care. And I have no idea, how could they miss this. What they did is, they forgot to compensate phase between bands

So all you do is add an allpass to your first few bands and you're happy because you can get narrower bands without the artefacts that are lower than phase smearing anyway?

[tony tony chopper]

Yes, the phase content would be altered

.. & thus it's not transparent.

Well, I passed a steady tone through your own compressor, with no compression & saturation disabled, so that everyone can enjoy its transparency. (I will pretend your compressor has no lin phase alternative since you did the same)

http://forum.image-line.com//files/transparent_723.ogg

You're probably gonna say that no one cares, and I would agree that no one should care about full transparency (or use a single-band compressor/limiter).
I use Maximus as an exciter/warmer in several of my plugins. If it was transparent I wouldn't bother using it.

[Shy]

<edit: double post>

[MeldaProduction]

Yes, the phase content would be altered

.. & thus it's not transparent.

Well, I passed a steady tone through your own compressor, with no compression & saturation disabled, so that everyone can enjoy its transparency. (I will pretend your compressor has no lin phase alternative since you did the same)

http://forum.image-line.com//files/transparent_723.ogg

You're probably gonna say that no one cares, and I would agree that no one should care about full transparency (or use a single-band compressor/limiter).
I use Maximus as an exciter/warmer in several of my plugins. If it was transparent I wouldn't bother using it.

I don't get the point. The thing is (which I'm pissed at), that Maximus doesn't keep the input frequency magnitudes the same even if the effect itself does not do anything. It basically equalizes the input. Use it if you want, but don't tell me it is transparent (and they do). I seriously doubt, that any mastering engineer want a multiband compressor, which creates a -4dB peak filter after they spent hours equalizing the audio (and they claim it's for mastering).

Let Maximus be that way, but I'm offended if they claim what they claim and people seem to really believe that. I mean, of course it is marketing, but this is like claiming that your plasma TV is actually TFT .

[IIRs]

So... why don't more devs use dynamic EQ instead of traditional cross-over filters?

Like this one

[MeldaProduction]

So... why don't more devs use dynamic EQ instead of traditional cross-over filters?

Like this one

Well, that's probably a matter of what you are used to. Dynamic eq won't alter the phase so much (though it usually does not matter), but multiband dynamics processor can provide more control about what it does IMHO. Ideally you know what you want and know how to use both of them .

[IIRs]

but multiband dynamics processor can provide more control about what it does IMHO.

How so?

[tony tony chopper]

I don't get the point. The thing is (which I'm pissed at), that Maximus doesn't keep the input frequency magnitudes the same even if the effect itself does not do anything.

It only does when you set a band very narrow, and even there the effect is less important than in the audio file I posted, and you know like me that the band isn't really narrow when you do that, it's just same but quieter, which is pointless.
Show me how a good 3-band division "doesn't keep magnitudes"?

but I'm offended if they claim

It is also a single-band compressor/limiter, thus can be transparent (what's your problem with that?), and can also be when set to linear-phase.
Does that mean that because your compressor features saturation as well, it's not transparent? I mean, it's there, so we have to use it, right?

A multiband compressor with non-linear phase filters can't be transparent, and yours certainly isn't. If I pass something through your compressor, that isn't compressed but sounds different, then it's not transparent. However you claim that yours is, and that it is in non-linear phase mode, that's the problem. The tone I posted only passed through your plugin, & you don't hear the difference?

[IIRs]

Ideally you know what you want and know how to use both of them .

What I wanted was a compressor that functions exactly like a multi-band, but that does literally nothing at all when flat. So I made one.

Its quite a simple concept really: a 3-band comp can be implemented with 2 dynamic shelving filters plus a gain stage. 4 bands would require 3 shelving filters, etc.

Sonalksis made one, which is too expensive for me to even demo (CQ1). I'm not aware of any others apart from my own designs... seems to me like everyone is missing a trick?