KVR Audio

Robhicks666 · Post by **Robhicks666** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:25 pm

Hi folks. I have been using the Korg Karma and M3 synths for a very long time now. The Karma function is massively useful to me to kick start inspiration. Thing is I am on the road a lot these days and can't lug these pieces of hardware around in my case. question is, are there any soft synths out there that have similar functionality to the Karma accompaniment? Any recommendations?

Thanks in advance for your time

Rob

Dave Polich · Post by **Dave Polich** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:56 pm

No, there are no softsynth equivalents of Karma. Karma technology is licensed exclusively to Korg. Who knows, that may change in the future.

danbroad · Post by **danbroad** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:04 pm

But, in addition, there are no softsynths with anything approaching KARMA, or even simple arranger type functions - there was a long discussion on this on the Halion Sonic thread.

Software is king for flexibility, sound possibilities and vivid realism. But, in the arranger and workstation realm, hardware reigns supreme.

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:11 pm

The only software that is remotely similar to Karma is Steinberg/Wizoo/reFX Xphraze.
It has built in pattern loop functions that can provide some kind of "instant accompaniment" type of playback. Very inspiring, very powerful, but not like Karma. Out of production, unfortunately ...

Bubbamusic · Post by **Bubbamusic** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:40 pm

Sotiris wrote:The only software that is remotely similar to Karma is Steinberg/Wizoo/reFX Xphraze.
It has built in pattern loop functions that can provide some kind of "instant accompaniment" type of playback. Very inspiring, very powerful, but not like Karma. Out of production, unfortunately ...

And what a shame that is. I'm astonished that no one has tried to make a similar synth. XPhraze was one of a kind. Simply, the competition bought it and killed it.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:59 pm

Like others said, nothing like Karma or even remotely close in software... I really do wonder, with all the developers and endless number of softsynths, why no developer has made something like this. Regularly someone asks for this and lost of people chime in that they would also like something but it does not happen.

rexlapin · Post by **rexlapin** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:02 am

For those of you with Reaktor 5, Ernest Meyer's Husserl
ensemble is a very powerful generative sequencer which
can output MIDI to other VSTis. Here is a link:
http://heavensonearth.com/Husserl-Sapphire.html
He is also working on a VST version, but it is still in
development. I hope you find this helpful.
Cheers,
Scott

Shabdahbriah · Post by **Shabdahbriah** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:08 am

rexlapin wrote:For those of you with Reaktor 5, Ernest Meyer's Husserl
ensemble is a very powerful generative sequencer which
can output MIDI to other VSTis. Here is a link:
http://heavensonearth.com/Husserl-Sapphire.html
He is also working on a VST version, but it is still in
development. I hope you find this helpful.
Cheers,
Scott

+1

Husserl ROCKS!

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:16 am

Bubbamusic wrote:I'm astonished that no one has tried to make a similar synth. XPhraze was one of a kind. Simply, the competition bought it and killed it.

Steinberg didn't need any competition to kill off Xphraze - they just have a dismal track record when it comes to VSTi:s developed "out-of-house" (anyone remember Plex?).

Other phrase-based plugins have also had a hard time, though. Sonicbytes Phrazor was dropped when the developer got a job at NI and Phrasemaster never seemed to have made any sort of impact and simply disappeared along with the developer Galleoneer. One interesting, phrase-based VSTi that's still around but never seems to have caught on is ADD from www.mesa-plus.com . You might want to give it a go, there's a downloadable demo at the website.

/Yoss

MaxSynths · Post by **MaxSynths** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:52 am

EnergyXT + a bunch of MIDI plugins and VST instruments isn't enough to run a custom auto accompaniment system? I remember I've used EnergyXT for realtime performances in the past and through keyboards splits, different zones and MIDI channels, velocity and MIDI CC# I can do almost everything. You can also program different configurations and run different instances of eXT into another host... so the possibilities are endless (I think).

HanafiH · Post by **HanafiH** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:45 am

You can get the Karma engine in native code from Karma Labs, you just need to have any kind of Triton in the MIDI chain somewhere, including the Triton rack. It depends on what you mean by portable.

TiUser · Post by **TiUser** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:49 am

EnergyXT + a bunch of MIDI plugins and VST instruments isn't enough to run a custom auto accompaniment system?

Karma is no auto accompaniment.

A "custom accompaniment system" in eXT is no auto accompaniment imho either. If you get something comparable it's for sure far more complicated and time consuming to get... DAW like.

Ok, I hear you - you said "custom" but one key point of auto accompaniment is getting things fast and simple. Cord recognition, used for realtime NTT of style sections and solo harmonizing in one vst might be a comparison - I am desperately looking for such a thing - if you have found one please let me know!

Just piercing pieces together may be "more flexible" but needs a lot more time and more expertise in any regard than a typical style based auto accompaniment system.

You can get the Karma engine in native code from Karma Labs
I can't really believe this - there are ton's of patents on Karma technology. You must be in good company with KarmaLabs if you have access to the engine in native code... I guess you mean the Karma PC application...?

TiUser · Post by **TiUser** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:52 am

Only platform that may incorporate Karma one day is Open Labs.

Unfortunately things are stuck for over a year. My personal guess is that OpenLabs does not want to pay S. Kay enough license fees - but who really ever knows?... maybe Korg isn't pleased either...??

Problem with Karma software is however you actually need a Kork HW keyboard as a "dongle" which is kind of crazy...

jobromedia · Post by **jobromedia** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:28 am

But wait a sec. What about Hypercyclic? At least it is a decent MIDI arpeggio that can be used to make Karmaesque patterns methinks. And as for sounds hell there is the entire expansionTank/Wusik/Nexus/Other libraries that can be used to do these sounds. Don't forget the Korg M1 / Wavestation. I used the Korg M1 created a combo that I played with Hypercyclic.

TiUser · Post by **TiUser** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:03 am

At least it is a decent MIDI arpeggio that can be used to make Karmaesque patterns methinks.

Karma is nor a simple arpeggiator - also there are arpeggiator models too - neither uses (static) note patterns in a conventional sense. So the comparison is a bit the apples - oranges thing.

I don't think someone who wants to have a replacement for Karma is really looking for a "downgrade". I haven't seen anything that comes close to Karma.

You should also not forget the hands on aspect of Karma. Instead of browsing through tons of arp patterns from a list you modify a single "model" by parameters. This means you can simply change musical elements in a way you can't by scrolling through preset lists.

I think replacing Karma is impossible. It's the same problem as to replace auto accompaniment hw by sw. Both is not really about results but a different approach to get these results. And both target to get things faster and simpler than with usual DAW approaches.

Any soft synths like Korg Karma out there?