Any soft synths like Korg Karma out there?

[Arglebargle]

I wonder how many people here use (or would use) Reaper?

I wouldn't. I've already got a DAW, not going to start using multiple DAWs. But if KARMA was somehow made into a general VST, I would wet my pants.

[jones-y]

Stephen,

Count me in the list of people who could care less about the 'wedded' content. I would buy Karma (and a PC to run it on if its not made available for Mac) the day it was released.

I bought a Korg M3 specifically for Karma, and ended up using it almost exclusively with other hardware/software synths and samplers. In the end, however, I don't like the sound quality of Korg synths (and I knew that going in - which in itself says a lot about your fantastic algorithms), so I couldn't justify keeping it around solely as a very expensive MIDI generator.

I'd give my next born child for Karma in software, wedded content be-damned... Additionally, when you marry content to the engine, you are again limiting your market, becoming dependent on other developers, and exposing yourself to several other disadvantages.

I say give (sell) it to the world, and let us figure out how to make a beautiful noise with it.

[bronswerk]

Stephen,

Count me in the list of people who could care less about the 'wedded' content. I would buy Karma (and a PC to run it on if its not made available for Mac) the day it was released.

I bought a Korg M3 specifically for Karma, and ended up using it almost exclusively with other hardware/software synths and samplers. In the end, however, I don't like the sound quality of Korg synths (and I knew that going in - which in itself says a lot about your fantastic algorithms), so I couldn't justify keeping it around solely as a very expensive MIDI generator.

I'd give my next born child for Karma in software, wedded content be-damned... Additionally, when you marry content to the engine, you are again limiting your market, becoming dependent on other developers, and exposing yourself to several other disadvantages.

I say give (sell) it to the world, and let us figure out how to make a beautiful noise with it.

+1

I always wondered what if Korg didn't cross Stephen's path. I understand that Stephen was probably looking for a way to introduce Karma to a big audience. I respect his decision, one can't live on air alone.

But, every other 'arpeggiator like' program on this planet is not linked to content. So why Karma still after all those years? One of the most beautiful midi generators around and it's solely (well almost) linked to Korg, sad.

[jones-y]

But, every other 'arpeggiator like' program on this planet is not linked to content. So why Karma still after all those years?

Make no mistake about it, there are definite advantages to having linked content and even integrating with a specific synth engine. Its not that I don't see Stephen's point, its that I don't like the idea of being tied to a synth manufacturer that I have never really cared for, or (in the case of Open Labs) a PC in a keyboard, locked into a certain host.

I already have a synth I like, a PC, and a host. I just want Karma...

[bronswerk]

Make no mistake about it, there are definite advantages to having linked content and even integrating with a specific synth engine.

And at the same time it's the biggest pitfall. Hit a preset and presto, there you have it. How many people actually dive into Karma? Not that many. Probably because it's quite complex with all those parameters, but I feel people are getting lazy these days with synths with thousands of sounds, gigabytes on samples etc.

[jones-y]

Make no mistake about it, there are definite advantages to having linked content and even integrating with a specific synth engine.

And at the same time it's the biggest pitfall. Hit a preset and presto, there you have it.

No that's not quite it. With integration, Karma can do sooo much more than simply spew out MIDI notes and CCs. For example on the M3, you can achieve wave-sequencing by having Karma change the underlying multisample in a patch.

[bronswerk]

No that's not quite it. With integration, Karma can do sooo much more than simply spew out MIDI notes and CCs. For example on the M3, you can achieve wave-sequencing by having Karma change the underlying multisample in a patch.

If Karma could send out system exclusive the same thing can be achieved with any other synth, if it responds fast enough that is.

[jones-y]

No that's not quite it. With integration, Karma can do sooo much more than simply spew out MIDI notes and CCs. For example on the M3, you can achieve wave-sequencing by having Karma change the underlying multisample in a patch.

If Karma could send out system exclusive the same thing can be achieved with any other synth, if it responds fast enough that is.

That's correct (and that's how it achieves wavesequencing on the M3). With sysex (depending on the specification of the synth in question) almost anything is possible. How do you standardize? How do you extend that to the DAW/plugin environment? How do you even demonstrate the capability in a way that users who wish to do complex programming will have a programming example?

[bronswerk]

I don't suggest that Karma must have sysex capabilities. Wave sequencing is a nice touch of course, but really necessary? I think we agree on it that Karma has enough power as it has now, except for more modules

Karma is a complex beast, that's for sure. I remember those days when I got the Karma Triton. Finally a program that steps out of the ordinarily. And I knew it was quite hard to make something better then those presets. But why should I beat those presets anyway? I used it on quite a few songs in the past. If you get rid of those controller/pitchbend messages you can use many GE's with other soundsources as well.

[szurcio]

How easy/difficult is it to use Karma GEs with softsynths or other hardware? I remember trying to use Motif arps with external sound sources and they didn't sound that good. I would probably buy a Korg keyboard for the sole purpose of using the Karma MW software with my plugins (I don't care for Korg sounds too much) but I would like to know for sure it's possible and not too complicated.

[HanafiH]

How easy/difficult is it to use Karma GEs with softsynths or other hardware? I remember trying to use Motif arps with external sound sources and they didn't sound that good. I would probably buy a Korg keyboard for the sole purpose of using the Karma MW software with my plugins (I don't care for Korg sounds too much) but I would like to know for sure it's possible and not too complicated.

Setting up is almost trivially easy, as all the Karma does is output MIDI, you can record this, or pipe through to another MIDI destination. It can get very complicated because generally the output Karma MIDI is awash with controller messages that only make sense to the Triton. You can filter these out and get at the underlying note MIDI relatively easily, it's when you want to remap these controllers that you have to do a bit of work. It gets as complicated as you want, I suppose. It can also get chaotic very quickly. I wouldn't recommend piping through to another synth live, unless you've done a lot of patch work first. It's very satisfying stripping down to the notes and using just those.

[TiUser]

Also I agree to most pro/con arguments pointed out here I have to comment on the "lazy" criticism.

There is so many stuff around today that it takes you a lot of time to dive into all and work with everything in detail - probably to simply find out all the technical overhead does nor enrich neither speed up your workflow...

Karma is really different to let's say preproduced auto accompaniment as it does not start with static preproduced stuff - just with a kind of suggestion you can tweak fast in musical terms.

I am not sure how many full professionals are in this forum here - just from statistics it's more likely that many of us are passionate amateurs or semi pros... and there is no endless time to deal with music - for all of us, including pros where time is real money.

I think "lazy" is not the point but what you make of the tools. I bet some world hits were written in 10 minutes while some 1+ year projects had no impact or were never finished.

[atukao]

Open Labs appear to be in difficulty:

www.gearjunkies.com/news_info.php?news_id=5342

[Karmacomposer]

I have been a Korg Karma owner/user for a very long time (look at my handle) - in fact, my serial number on my beloved Karma is quite small.

I have used Steven's software for PC for a while as well.

I would LOVE to see a stand alone version/vst version of the Karma capabilities - but you would need a pretty good workstation to run it efficiently - there is a LOT going on in a typical performance or combi.

Just want to say 'Hi' to Stephen - I used to frequent your forums many moons ago. Nice seeing you here.

I still use my Karma despite going mostly vsti. I also use an arranger keyboard and marry all of them together for a really wicked set of sounds.

Mike

[jeffn1]

Did anyone mention Stylus RMX by Spectrasonics?

http://www.spectrasonics.net/instruments/stylusrmx.html


jeffn1