First off, just bought Cantabile Performer last night. I was using Ableton Live but since I don't run sequences and I need more capabilities than Ableton comes with for live gigging with VSTs I decided to make the switch. I am glad I did! I'll still use Ableton for other things, but for live gigging as a keyboard player with VST's, Cantabile is better for this purpose.
So here's my question:
I am controlling my VSTs in Cantabile with an M-Audio Axiom 61. If I create a patch in the Axiom for each of the midi channels I control in Cantabile, when I change my Axiom patch, the active zone sends a program change on that midi channel to Cantabile. I don't want that and the only way to avoid that is to deactivate all zones when the Axiom patch loads so now I'd have to change the Axiom patch and then activate a zone. Not always doable when I'm in the middle of a performance and may only have enough time to simply hit the patch up/down buttons on the Axiom. So I have told Cantabile to suppress patch changes from the Axiom, but this isn't really what I want either. I can setup my zones in the Axiom to always send program change #127 to Cantabile when I change the Axiom patch, but then when I'm in the Axiom patch I need, I may want to send program changes to Cantabile and have it change the VST program so long as that VST program is not program #127.
So can I setup Cantabile to suppress only program change #127 and allow program changes #1-126? As of now I can only see that it will suppress all program changes.
I hope this makes sense. Thanks in advance for any help with this.
Program Change Granularity
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- KVRAF
- 2310 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Germany
Cantabile has midi filters to solve most midi problems.
You can suppress all program changes with the "supress midi event" filter and check "program change" in there.
Depending on what you need you can put this in "global input", "session input" or other individual slots.
I am not sure if filtering individual program changes is possible as well, I'll look into that. For now I would say this is not possible.
But probably you don't need zones on your keyboard at all as you can do transpose and zones in each Cantabile rack. These options are also subsession sensitive per default.
If you switch sounds by cutting off certain midi channels from a zoned patch of your keyboard you have also an alternative, you can assign controller buttons of your keyboars to Cantabile rack buttons (bypass, mute, suspend) to switch sounds on and off.
So I hope you can work around your problem.
You can suppress all program changes with the "supress midi event" filter and check "program change" in there.
Depending on what you need you can put this in "global input", "session input" or other individual slots.
I am not sure if filtering individual program changes is possible as well, I'll look into that. For now I would say this is not possible.
But probably you don't need zones on your keyboard at all as you can do transpose and zones in each Cantabile rack. These options are also subsession sensitive per default.
If you switch sounds by cutting off certain midi channels from a zoned patch of your keyboard you have also an alternative, you can assign controller buttons of your keyboars to Cantabile rack buttons (bypass, mute, suspend) to switch sounds on and off.
So I hope you can work around your problem.
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...
...and keep on jamming...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 39 posts since 5 Aug, 2010 from Los Angeles, CA
Thanks for the response TiUser. There's always more than one way to do something, so I just have to sit down and figure out how else I can get what I want out of my setup. Just setting things up today I have seen the advantages of Cantabile and I haven't even started messing with Subsessions or set lists yet, so I know it's all possible. I just gotta spend some more time with it all. I'll find a way.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
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- KVRAF
- 2310 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Germany
Well, that's what this forum is for - sharing hints that one might not notice at a first glance.
Once you have already done a lot of sessions then it may be even harder to rework all these...
The more freedom in assignment and configuration we have the harder it gets to find the "best" way through the jungle...
Once you have already done a lot of sessions then it may be even harder to rework all these...
The more freedom in assignment and configuration we have the harder it gets to find the "best" way through the jungle...
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...
...and keep on jamming...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 39 posts since 5 Aug, 2010 from Los Angeles, CA
So I've reprogrammed my live configuration in Cantabile and as I mentioned above, I've found a better way (for me) to do this. Let me just say that SubSessions ROCK! I simply created my configurations I needed as subsessions for each song and setup various midi routings as needed to control whatever VSTs I need for a given song. So every song is now a subsession and I also have several subsessions for things like lead patches for solos and such.
I tried using Set Lists but to me, it seems to duplicate what the Subsession list does with the exception of sorting and loading multiple sessions. The one thing that would put Set Lists over the top, is if the Midi Assignments to handle patch changes could be separated from the Global level (i.e. they were stored with the set list separate from the rest of Cantabile). Also, if there was an Midi Assignment option to specify that any program change that came in on a specific midi channel was sent to the Set List or SubSession without have to map a specific Midi Assignment for each patch change. So if I choose preset 15 on my midi controller it will assume I want to load SubSession 15 or song 15 in the set list (provided it exists). That way I wouldn't need to create a midi assignment for every patch change I want to send to a specific subsession/set list song. Maybe there's a way to do that already and I didn't see it. No matter, I was able to get what I need and do it quickly and about as intuitively as you can hope when dealing with multiple VSTs and midi routings.
I'm glad I bought Cantabile. For me it is way more flexible and powerful for dealing with live VST gigging setups than what I've used in the past. Kudos to TopTen for such a great product! Keep up the great work!
I tried using Set Lists but to me, it seems to duplicate what the Subsession list does with the exception of sorting and loading multiple sessions. The one thing that would put Set Lists over the top, is if the Midi Assignments to handle patch changes could be separated from the Global level (i.e. they were stored with the set list separate from the rest of Cantabile). Also, if there was an Midi Assignment option to specify that any program change that came in on a specific midi channel was sent to the Set List or SubSession without have to map a specific Midi Assignment for each patch change. So if I choose preset 15 on my midi controller it will assume I want to load SubSession 15 or song 15 in the set list (provided it exists). That way I wouldn't need to create a midi assignment for every patch change I want to send to a specific subsession/set list song. Maybe there's a way to do that already and I didn't see it. No matter, I was able to get what I need and do it quickly and about as intuitively as you can hope when dealing with multiple VSTs and midi routings.
I'm glad I bought Cantabile. For me it is way more flexible and powerful for dealing with live VST gigging setups than what I've used in the past. Kudos to TopTen for such a great product! Keep up the great work!
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- KVRAF
- 2310 posts since 13 Apr, 2008 from Germany
Thanks for your experience report.
Subsessions is a powerful feature. It's the key feature to make scene changes as fast as possible.
Beside your way dialing in numbers you can also step subsessions up and down when you assign controllers. For instance you can use a foot pedal.
Setlists have additional aspects you might wish to consider as well.
At the moment you can only address 128 subsessions in the subsession list. When you need complex changes in a song and have a lot of songs this may be probably not enough. Unfortunately there is no assignment for bank numbers to subsession entries yet to have "unlimited" subsessions.
More than one session in a setlist can come in handy as a welcome higher level of organization. True, then you get more or less loading time then.
Setlists can also be useful if you just have a small set of subsessions but a long list of songs reusing the same subsessions over and over again. Instead of memorizing the program numbers of subsessions you can step through the songs in the setlist - still with one session and all subsessions.
You can also sort the setlist simpler. The subsession list is somewhat unorganized instead and offers just basic sort by program number or by name.
Finally you can use all the list information to show up on Cantabiles status panel to have some feedback during performance.
So the point with Setlists is you can use it on top of what you already have done to gain some flexibility and make your performances even more convenient to control.
Just my 2ct.
Subsessions is a powerful feature. It's the key feature to make scene changes as fast as possible.
Beside your way dialing in numbers you can also step subsessions up and down when you assign controllers. For instance you can use a foot pedal.
Setlists have additional aspects you might wish to consider as well.
At the moment you can only address 128 subsessions in the subsession list. When you need complex changes in a song and have a lot of songs this may be probably not enough. Unfortunately there is no assignment for bank numbers to subsession entries yet to have "unlimited" subsessions.
More than one session in a setlist can come in handy as a welcome higher level of organization. True, then you get more or less loading time then.
Setlists can also be useful if you just have a small set of subsessions but a long list of songs reusing the same subsessions over and over again. Instead of memorizing the program numbers of subsessions you can step through the songs in the setlist - still with one session and all subsessions.
You can also sort the setlist simpler. The subsession list is somewhat unorganized instead and offers just basic sort by program number or by name.
Finally you can use all the list information to show up on Cantabiles status panel to have some feedback during performance.
So the point with Setlists is you can use it on top of what you already have done to gain some flexibility and make your performances even more convenient to control.
Just my 2ct.
Best regards, TiUser
...and keep on jamming...
...and keep on jamming...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 39 posts since 5 Aug, 2010 from Los Angeles, CA
Once again, thank you TiUser. I plan on using set lists as I get more familiar with Cantabile. I have gigs this week so I had to get to a comfortable place for the moment to get throught this week, then I can explore some more.
Thanks
Thanks