Fretting over timing

[Count_fuzzball]

I need help. I seriously cannot get ANY music creating done due to me having an absolutely fail sense of timing when playing to a metronome. I tend to either play a bit before or after the bar (technically just after or before the off beat, on the 'and' of beat 4 or 1).

Not that I'm saying that my human variance isn't more 'natural' sounding, but it's quite noticable when playing back the notes TO a metronome that I hit a note too early or too late and it really really frustrates me trying to record stuff live (which I prefer to drawing in notes).

I have I got a really bad timing issue or am I just being overly fussy and wanting a perfectly robot performance?

[Ogg Vorbis]

I need help. I seriously cannot get ANY music creating done due to me having an absolutely fail sense of timing when playing to a metronome. I tend to either play a bit before or after the bar (technically just after or before the off beat, on the 'and' of beat 4 or 1).

Not that I'm saying that my human variance isn't more 'natural' sounding, but it's quite noticable when playing back the notes TO a metronome that I hit a note too early or too late and it really really frustrates me trying to record stuff live (which I prefer to drawing in notes).

I have I got a really bad timing issue or am I just being overly fussy and wanting a perfectly robot performance?

Don't worry, it's fixable! You can go get one of the metronomes that has "swinging pendulum" LED lights so that you can see the tactus "between the beats" and better measure out your playing.

There might even be a virtual pendulum metronome online somewhere.

Or you can hit a garage sale and get an old mechanical metronome with a real pendulum.

Practice with this for a few weeks until you get so that you can use your DAW's click.

[Ogg Vorbis]

Another idea: can you set your 'nome so that the click is 16ths instead of quarters? Or even 32nds? Subdividing might help because there's not so much "distance" between the clicks.

I think it's fixible.

[Nystul]

Timing comes with practice/playing, both in general and specifically being comfortable with the part you are trying to play. If it's sloppy, you just need to practice. And tap your foot if you aren't using pedals! But if you want robot perfect, you should use quantization to fix your timings.

[sammy24]

try letting the metronome go for a little while, and just sit back and listen. tap your foot, and get that tempo into your body. and be patient. if you're often off by an entire 8th note, then u definitely have to work hard on your timing; natural variance should be much less noticeable than that. But the good news is, if you notice the problem then you're probably more than halfway there.

[tapper mike]

I'm with sammy on this one. I've had a lot of students lock up when they have to play to something. Thinking that tensing up is going to help them.
Tapping your foot and getting your body involved such as shaking your head will prolly help quite a bit.

[Count_fuzzball]

Ogg, yeah, my sequencer can play the bar, beat and sub-beat, so I'll see how that goes.

Also thanks a lot for the the advice the rest of you gave! I'll try and relax and and 'feel' the tempo.

[jancivil]

this is going to sound like somebody being mean, but I have to say it anyway: if you have an utter failure to execute your own timings, the idea that you should be "creating music" is a bit premature.
You have to practice to get something. There are people who can, and people who can't, groove to a click. But if you can't execute things somewhat reliably on time, what value rhythmically are you going to feature in a 'creation'? First things first.

[tapper mike]

Jan, not all were born with an innate sense of rythum. Some take a little longer then others.

[sammy24]

As Dick Grove puts it, there are 6 "ears" a musician is trying to develop, a rhythmic ear being one example. Most people have imbalances in their "ears", they may have an advanced sense of melody, but really a very weak harmonic ear. Or you have studio engineers who can hear textures of sound but may not be very good in other important musical areas.

It's probably true though that in order to create music on a professional level, that all the different areas have been developed to a certain degree. And rhythm is most important, because music happens in time, obviously. But it's never too early to be creative, IMHO. Go for it, compose away, and meanwhile continue to improve your musicianship as you go.

[kbaccki]

There are people who can, and people who can't, groove to a click.

Two things:

1.) Yes to your statement

2.) Why is anybody trying to "groove to a click" in the first place?

Seriously, a metronome is very difficult to lock onto because... well because it's musical and rhythmic nonsense. It's a context-free click, clack, beep, blip. Who really feels comfortable locking onto click, clack, beep, blip?!? I can do it because I have years of experience with music, rhythm, etc., but it still take conscious effort. On the other hand... dial up a spicey Brazilian or Cuban percussion section... now you can feel the rhythm. That's the ultimate goal: to feel the rhythm internally, so that it's second nature. I have a hard time feeling click, clack, beep, blip.

When you're locked onto a rhythm you shouldn't even realize that you're tapping your foot, bobbing your head, whatever. If you have to consciously direct your foot to tap 1 2 3 4, or move this or that body part in time, what's left over to do the really complicated stuff? You know, like figuring out the sharps and flats?

What's the context of this playing? Are you practicing scales? Recording melodies? Whatever it is you're doing, why not do it against a real groove? Find some good drum loops in styles you like, and play against that. The better the groove, the easier it will be to internalize.

[tapper mike]

Timing is essential to performance. Gaining a sense of timing is not generated by playing to superflorus background. Regardless of the instrument you choose or the direction you choose all great musicians be they solists or performing a rythum section all great musicians share a common trait. Great timing.
The value of using a metronome is that your sound is not washed behind other sounds. Your conviction of performance should be that it can stand alone without needing the support of any instrument.

Playing with a metronome keeps you honest.

[jancivil]

Jan, not all were born with an innate sense of rythum. Some take a little longer then others.

Sure, but does this mean they shouldn't get it together somewhat before they decide "I'm going to compose"????

I don't see a necessary problem here.

[jancivil]

There are people who can, and people who can't, groove to a click.

Two things:

1.) Yes to your statement

2.) Why is anybody trying to "groove to a click" in the first place?

Seriously, a metronome is very difficult to lock onto because... well because it's musical and rhythmic nonsense. It's a context-free click, clack, beep, blip. Who really feels comfortable locking onto click, clack, beep, blip?!? I can do it because I have years of experience with music, rhythm, etc., but it still take conscious effort. On the other hand... dial up a spicey Brazilian or Cuban percussion section... now you can feel the rhythm. That's the ultimate goal: to feel the rhythm internally, so that it's second nature. I have a hard time feeling click, clack, beep, blip.

When you're locked onto a rhythm you shouldn't even realize that you're tapping your foot, bobbing your head, whatever. If you have to consciously direct your foot to tap 1 2 3 4, or move this or that body part in time, what's left over to do the really complicated stuff? You know, like figuring out the sharps and flats?

What's the context of this playing? Are you practicing scales? Recording melodies? Whatever it is you're doing, why not do it against a real groove? Find some good drum loops in styles you like, and play against that. The better the groove, the easier it will be to internalize.

There are people in the profession of making music recording that insist on a click, particularly in the movie bidness. I hate it. I have my preferences set so the click doesn't come on by accident.

I agree with you totally.

Here's where I'm coming from on the subject:

When I was around 12, 13, and first dragged onto stages with jazz pros, I tended to rush things (or drag, in a slow ballad). I was a little punky rock and roll drummer, and the band leader said I'd have to go woodshed with a metronome to hope to cut it for real (I didn't do it for long, because I hated it. Stifling; but it was useful at that stage to cure me of rushing/dragging.).

I played, not the worst drums in the world for a few years, copped a lot of things off records towards educating myself to be a rock guitarist for a few more years, woodshedded for 3 to get myself into classical music circles as a classical guitarist, played for juries for a couple years, had a couple great teachers in harmony and got myself into grad level analysis, then electronic music lab out to SF.

This is over a decade past where I figured I was so grand I might someday write my own music (since I heard some clearly in my head that seemed novel enough) and where I actually said "I think that I will compose some things". I had good time, I had internalized the mechanics of line and harmony, counterpoint, and played on some stages, toured. I'd earned the statement: 'maybe I could realize my dream of composing some things after all'.

Nowadays I guess all one does is buy a computer and a sequencer and let's get going, and we'll be BT. Come on.

[Rudebrat]

Use 8th notes so you play with every beat when practicing.