I have two (possibly dumb ;) questions about keys...

[4ppleseed]

So, I was transcribing an 80s song into Midi, just repeating the sections and working out the notes being played. The sharps used are F# C# G# D# so that would be in the key of E.

Now here's my two, not very important to the song but just things that were buzzing around my head questions:

1) Lets say the song didn't use all those sharps and there isn't a single G# in the track, its still in E right? Because there's the F# and the D# and whatever is inbetween doesn't have to be used, its defined by the start and end order of the sharps (or flats)?

And number 2)
Lets say the song is in A and uses loads of F# C# G# and gets all the way to the end and right on the last note plays a single A#. Is this now in B, even though its not played a single D#?

Thanks for your help. Silly things I know but would just like to get my head round the theory a little more.

[JumpingJackFlash]

1) Lets say the song didn't use all those sharps and there isn't a single G# in the track, its still in E right? Because there's the F# and the D# and whatever is inbetween doesn't have to be used, its defined by the start and end order of the sharps (or flats)?

Sounds like it might be in E minor to me (The D# being the raised leading-note).

And number 2)
Lets say the song is in A and uses loads of F# C# G# and gets all the way to the end and right on the last note plays a single A#. Is this now in B, even though its not played a single D#?.

Depends, hard to tell out of context.
Well done for getting the order of sharps thing, that's probably the hard work done.
However, that is not the be-all and end-all.

Sharps and flats (and naturals) can occur in music that do not belong to the key. They might be used only as decoration (we say they are chromatic).

Also, remember that every key-signature is shared between one major key and one minor key. So, to take an example, 2 sharps could be D major, or it could also be B minor (We call it the relative minor).
But, if there was only one C# in the music for example, the piece could be in G major (one sharp) and the C# could be chromatic. (It's also possible the piece could be in A major (three sharps) and the G-natural is chromatic).

Further reading:
Sharps, Flats and how to work out Keys
An Introduction to Key-Signatures

[tapper mike]

Note choice is what you make of it not what it makes of you.

Choosing not to play a particular not in a scale doe not alter the key of a song.
Guitarists, Rock, Country, Blues usually start by learning pentatonics and the blues scale. They have a prediliction for mixing and matching scales. As the scales merge they often opt for a mixolydian mode or a dorian mode.

As a result even if all the chords in a song say "Key of A" most often you'll find the notes come from the mixolydian scale.

There are no accidents you are free to color inside the lines or out. As you are free to omit note that don't serve your purpose.

[jancivil]

*4 sharps* is 'key of E major'. because when you run that 7 note set, E to E, that's a convention known as 'E major scale'.


The saying "In E" just means your *tonic* is E, to many people. 'Home = E'. For instance: somebody may call 'Blues in E', and there may or may not be some 'major' kinda action to be had when you go there.
"it's defined by": you perceive a need to land there, at 'home'. You could have a mode of all white keys, or any group, and not be wrong to say 'it's in E' if E def. = home base.

as far as that A#, could be, can't say conclusively from that info. if A# gives you an irresistable pull to B as home key, certainly. A line that does, A#, F#, B would be part of a modulation to B, for instance.

[robgxmn]

And number 2)
Lets say the song is in A and uses loads of F# C# G# and gets all the way to the end and right on the last note plays a single A#. Is this now in B, even though its not played a single D#?

Thanks for your help. Silly things I know but would just like to get my head round the theory a little more.

]

Not a silly question at all.

We call some notes accidentals. They're notes that don't follow the key of the piece. Look at Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.

Sheet music here:
http://www.8notes.com/scores/1754.asp?ftype=gif

Look at the 2nd note of the 4th measure, also in E Major like the piece you're transcribing. That B would normally be a natural in E Maj, but it needs to be played here as a sharp. That doesn't change the key. Whenever you see this occur in sheet music, that note takes the modification for that measure only.

[4ppleseed]

I just wanted to say thank you to all four of you. I loved reading your comments and not only do I have a better understanding of my original questions, I now feel ready to move on a little further with my own music. Perfect

[Viv Savage]

1) Lets say the song didn't use all those sharps and there isn't a single G# in the track, its still in E right? Because there's the F# and the D# and whatever is inbetween doesn't have to be used, its defined by the start and end order of the sharps (or flats)?

Sounds like it might be in E minor to me (The D# being the raised leading-note).

E Harmonic Minor to be precise (E F# G A B C D# E).

Then again many, if not most, songs use accidentals to spice things up. So... if there is just the one D# (or a few) mixed in with the natural Ds they are accidentals.

[kek]

The key in which you are depends on how well your harmonic progression 'expresses' a certain key. Using the notes you mentioned could be used to express C#-minor, A-major, F#-minor etc. For example in standard harmony theroy it is said that the progression IV-V-I establishes a key (which the tonic 'I' refers to) strongly and unambiguously, which is why it is used so often in classical music.