Crysonic Apology

[Teksonik]

@Tek: Your choice. However, I just explained that this is the obscure thread which Ben is very unlikely ever to bother reading, while one placed in Site Stuff would not be obscure and would be far more likely to get his attention.

He read my PM. If he didn't bother to search his own website for "Crysonic" just to see what I was on about then a thread in any forum at KVR obscure or not isn't going to help. This story didn't just break this week it's been an ongoing saga for years.

I'm glad there are at least some satisfied customers. In my opinion you played with fire and didn't get burnt.

I guess the newbies are on their own. Hopefully they won't get burnt as well...........

[Teksonik]

Is there a summary somewhere of what this is now all about now?

All you need is in this thread. The part that should have raised a red flag is in the first post:

First I like to introduce myself, my name is Jay Brenton and I am one of the Directors here at Crysonic Australia and have been with them since 2006

He has been with the "company" since 2006 which is smack in the middle of Crysonic's problems. Someone responsible for the problem isn't likely to be of much long term help.

None the less I decided to give him a second chance and even tried to help with customer service by suggesting he open a company support forum here. But second chances are fragile and when I read of people still having problems with service I closed the book on Crysonic. "Guilty of crimes against KVR......... next case".

Anyway everything you need is in this thread................I'm done. The prosecution rests.

[Meffy]

I'm glad there are at least some satisfied customers. In my opinion you played with fire and didn't get burnt.

Not at all. I haven't bought anything from them. This thread serves as a warning, but like you I think these plug-ins should be removed from the database as well.*

I don't think throwing my opinion in as a PM to Ben would do any good though. Those who have actual commercial grievances are in a stronger position than I am on this. Just because I get to push a few buttons doesn't mean my opinion is worth as much as people who are directly involved in the matter. Those opinions carry a lot more weight on this than mine.
___________________
* [edit] Unless they clear up all outstanding disputes, at least. I always prefer customers getting satisfaction over any kind of punishment.

[Compyfox]

This thread serves as a warning,

So was the old thread to be honest, and nothing ever happened.

* [edit] Unless they clear up all outstanding disputes, at least. I always prefer customers getting satisfaction over any kind of punishment.

And this is the problem right there. Crysonic came out of nowhere since they started a (yet another) sale, but this time through AudioMIDI.com.

So to prevent any more damage, and to get customers again, they apologized. And all of a sudden, everything was fine and forgiven?! I didn't buy that book right from the start, which is why I posted in here on page 1(!).

I never got any apologies, I was pointed fingers at and constantly asked "when do you rest the case?!". Then I put it beyond me - in the end it turned out that I didn't have to say anything at all. History repeat itself.


If that IS NOT proof enough that there is something fishy going on, I don't know what is.

After the name calling from the developers themselves on this board, the threatening on the phone, the silence after uncovering and publishing what was really going on back in the day (analysis plots, just to name one example)... didn't it show enough already?!

Some of us adressed this to Ben - I remember that I did at least, with no response and the moderators asked me to step back a little as well. Ben even CLOSED the original thread that caused all the uproar while saying:

I think it's time to close this. Any follow up in the apology thread please:

This was a slap in the face. As if there were some deals going on in the background. Though I can't prove that, only guess. We didn't damage their reputation, they did it themselves - and this thread here is yet another prime example.

What else do we have to do?!
What "can" we even do?


I unfortunately have to agree with Teksonik once again - posting this in site stuff won't really help. Why? Even simple written requests for this board are ignored. It seems like only the moderators are active and barely the admins.

Sorry if this sounds strong and agressive as if I'm flaming only - but I had to get this off of my chest!


EDIT:
And there we have it again, 25 pages of discussion, the majority of the posts stating problems, sometimes some rouge "I don't know what problems you have - I'm a happy customer" posts, and for several pages now what went haywire. I have a feeling this thread will soon be closed yet again.

[VariKusBrainZ]

analysis plots

there is something fishy going on

Compyfox, would you mind expanding on these points as out of context they are meaningless to me.
I havent the time to wade through this quagmire!

I was thinking Crysonic just have an administration problem and need to get a bit more organised but the quotes above suggest a premeditated and sinister plan to deliberately defraud customers.

Ta

[Compyfox]

You must obviously live under a rock then. I posted the old thread, I stated on page 1 what was going on. This dates back to 2007 and was bumped occasionally.

Read up on there as well as in here (the other comments, not only mine). If this is out of context for you, or you didn't want to do any more research to make yourself an own picture of this - not my problem!

[Meffy]

I have a feeling this thread will soon be closed yet again.

Best way to do that would be to turn it from a discussion to a flame-fest. Cool down and keep things impersonal and it'll be more likely to stay unlocked.

[Meffy]

[Here is what I just sent to the OP. I've no idea whether it will help get some support but there it is. Don't say I never bring you flowers. (And if there aren't actually any flowers yet, well, don't producers prefer stems?)]

Note: I'm emailing this and posting it to the "Crysonic apology" thread at KVR. My intention is not to embarrass you but to emphasize the urgency of the matter.

Jay, you posted this some time ago: "We are aware that we have not handled everything in the best way, and we intend on doing whatever we can to fix it." Since then the number of customers complaining of unresolved problems has skyrocketed, with no response from Crysonic for months now.

Would-be customers and ex-customers are calling for heads to be displayed on pikes by the castle gate. Worse still, many would like to see all Crysonic plug-ins deleted from the KVR database, and unless the company does something FAST to address all outstanding issues I reluctantly find myself in favor of that course too.

Don't just "intend on doing." DO. Wade in there like a mensch and take care of your support backlog. I'm getting really tired of trying to keep people calm and reasonable when Crysonic seemingly can't be bothered to deal with the situation.

I want a positive outcome both for your company and for the customers. Right now I don't see Crysonic working toward that. I hope to see that change immediately.

Regards,

Meffy Ellis
KVR moderator

[bduffy]

Wow. Now I'm feeling like a dupe for falling for the initial attempt at goodwill! I accepted my free plugin, but I had no idea they'd let things slide back down this badly. Phew.

[Meffy]

I hate playing "bad cop" but feel that things have got to get resolved. A "good cop" who wished to remain anonymous has also contacted Jay. If either or both of us succeed at convincing him to get back in touch and start fixing people up, I want to request that people NOT come down on him like a ton of bricks. That's the surest way to make someone say "forget it, these people want blood, not satisfaction."

Instead, those who don't have money in this -- don't pile on with unhelpful comments and invective. Keep out of other people's affairs and they'll have a better chance of being fixed up. Those who do have money in -- be businesslike and firm. Make your case and let it stand while things get resolved.

Behave civilly and you'll have a strong case for being treated likewise. Fly off the handle and you're less likely to see resolution. That's no less true on the Internet than in a real-life shop, garage, or whatever.

And yes, I know some of you have long-running grievances. Want to see them resolved? Or would you rather keep the resentment instead? Which is worth more? Be civil.

If and when the dialog with Jay or someone from Crysonic resumes: Be fair. Expect fair treatment in exchange.

[bduffy]

Great post, Meffy. And thanks for your help.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Hi,

Thanks Compyfox for the reply, though Im still non the wiser, as you say "not your problem".

@Meffy - Hi, What exactly are disgruntled customers demanding. All I could fathom (Im damned if Im wading through tens of pages of whinging) was that some early customers were 'conned' into buying plugins on the premise they would get some free stuff down the line i.e non SE replacements.

Is there more to it than this? Maybe you could outline the grievences in the 1st post?

I dont doubt people have legitamate problems with Crysonic but these threads come across as witch hunts, unless youve maybe read the entire thread.

[Meffy]

If I had a year and got paid to do it, I might comb through this and sort it out... but I haven't a year and I don't get paid anything at all.

I'll have to depend on those who have put money in and not got what they paid for -- they'll have to step forward and make their cases. That will probably be in another thread started specifically for the purpose, since this one's pretty well turned into an impenetrable tangle.

[Compyfox]

Be civil.

I am civil. I could have at least expected the same from the firm with the capital C towards me.

Is there more to it than this? Maybe you could outline the grievences in the 1st post?

I dont doubt people have legitamate problems with Crysonic but these threads come across as witch hunts, unless youve maybe read the entire thread.

Let it sum down in bullet points for you (since Crysonic showed up in mid 2000):

- Firm released plugins, barely any noticed them
- Firm released Spectralive v2 and business started to take sail
- People joined the ride and bought one plugin after another.
- Then people started to complain regarding bugs and crazy behavior in the full version compared to the demo version, not to mention missing documentation - I was one of them
- Firm claimed from the start "these are all custom" while people found out that the "interior" of the plugins were SynthEdit stock (back in the day while SynthEdit was a no-go)
- The userbase filed detailed reports, the only answers the firm gave were "we have family/health issues; it's not our fault if your host is too old/we don't support such old hosts (back in the day Wavelab 4/5 and Cubase SX3 were the leading lights)/we have ton of users where it's working fine - it's your fault!; please wait for the fixed native versions - they'll be released soon"
- Firm started to release paid "updates" of their plugins. Customers caved and went along
- Even more bugs were adressed
- Same answers as before, no solution or bugfixes were released, instead even more deals that "only happens this time" came up
- Some customers started to be more persistant in the bug-fix discussion
- Firm still said it's not on their fault, evaded questions and said "native version soon"
- Firm released yet another updated version for cash
- Customer base went on a riot
- Crysonic still didn't give in, remained arrogant and started to call people names, liars and insisted that these individuals "damage their reputation" (as can be read on KVR in the old thread)
- One customer was called on the phone and threatened (I speak of experience, I was the customer)
- Crysonic continued their behavior, pushed out even more paid versions, still insisted that "native versions will be released soon, and they will be free of charge"
- Firm released "native versions" after months of silence, but declared them as v2 and therefore made them a "paid update"
- Firm posted yet another "time limited sale" (that kept on for about 1,5 years)
- Customer base filed their frustration on several webboards, started to analyse what's really going on with the plugins as they were undocumented, some of the plugins were even inferior than it's initial release, or placebo
- Firm didn't answer anything, cut the support and kind of dropped off the planet
- Customer base then found out, that there were year long announced plugins (some of them are still not released), the firm was looking for "programmers", and they announced a "TV Program" and "Photo Book".
- Silence for months
- People then started to mass-sale their plugins through the KVR market place
- Fast forward to late spring/early summer 2010: Crysonic started another sale, this time through AudioMIDI.com's no brainer system
- Old threads were revived as warning to possible new customers
- Crysonic tried to do damage control and insisted that "things will be better", and threw as candy a "free additional plugin" on top of the sale
- Old threads were locked by the KVR CEO
- people were happy - since they got free stuff with their deal
- after a short while, some "rouge" users however stated first issues with the just purchased plugins, while some old users asked regarding their "free updates" of their old versions abd outstanding plugin issues
- Firm constantly said "we're working on it", but support kind of vanished, until it completely halted
- History repeat itself


So as you can see, this is all there is to it. A bit more research would have told you the same, granted on a bit more pages, but certain individuals (myself included) repeated what happened through the years over and over in short form. It wasn't that hard to follow.

If you still think that it's not Crysonic's fault since it's not legitamate problems, okay - that's your opinion. But if you don't know both sides of the medal, why take sides?




Just my humble opinion - I stated my point again, looks like I still talk useless stuff. So I'm glad that I insisted on a refund back in the day and never touch any of these plugins anymore.

[VariKusBrainZ]

If I had a year and got paid to do it, I might comb through this and sort it out... but I haven't a year and I don't get paid anything at all.

I'll have to depend on those who have put money in and not got what they paid for -- they'll have to step forward and make their cases. That will probably be in another thread started specifically for the purpose, since this one's pretty well turned into an impenetrable tangle.

No problem, I realise youre a voluntary Mod but thanks for taking the time to reply.