Your next guitar?

[Uncle E]

Their gold top EC-400, which was mahogany with the JB/59 pickup configuration, was a fantastic instrument. I'm looking forward to trying this one simply because I'm a huge Slash fan and this is essentially a copy of the Slash model.

How would you feel about a neck-thru Les Paul? I've been wondering lately if neck-thru guitars got a bad rap because they're generally maple, and that's reason most of them sound so cold, harsh, and sterile. For example, I used to have a Carvin that sounded just as bad as any neck-thru I've heard despite it having a glue-on neck, and I'm sure it was because it was 100% maple. What I'm thinking now of trying is a neck-thru with a good sounding piece of mahogany, so it's just a single piece of wood from each end of the string with no glue or screws in the middle.

[susiwong]

How would you feel about a neck-thru Les Paul? I've been wondering lately if neck-thru guitars got a bad rap because they're generally maple, and that's reason most of them sound so cold, harsh, and sterile. For example, I used to have a Carvin that sounded just as bad as any neck-thru I've heard despite it having a glue-on neck, and I'm sure it was because it was 100% maple. What I'm thinking now of trying is a neck-thru with a good sounding piece of mahogany, so it's just a single piece of wood from each end of the string with no glue or screws in the middle.

Hi Eric,
not really sure about the neck-through.
It's probably down to the individual instrument more than basic construction.
I've owned and played a few neck-throughs over the years (being rather "vintage" myself ), very different feels and tones.
-- Ibanez Musician and Studio - not my cup of tea, too smooth, too "pretty", not rock'n'roll enough, Studio is a bit better (reason PUs ?)
-- Yamaha SF600 - pretty nice Strat-SG hybrid, let down by eletronics and PUs
-- Daions like Hink's, similarly nice, outstanding build quality, also not too vintage sounding but in a good way
-- I've played some nice and some ugly sounding US BC Rich's, probably down to wood choice
-- the following come closest :
-- Yamaha SG 2000, a bit thinner, "lighter" sounding than a LP, not unlike a PRS Custom 24 in a way, great guitar nonetheless, definitely in vintage territory
-- Hoyer handbuilt LP copy (very high quality), like this one, only sunburst and with a two-part flame maple top showing a stripe of the neck in the middle

great tone, old DiMarzio PAF/SD PUs, a really valid Gibson alternative (until I broke off the headstock - don't ask ). The guy who bought it cheap after a pro repair still loves it, to me the magic was gone.
This guitar had real tone including the attack ...
-- and finally a gorgeous Bolin LP-in-Strat-shape which I came dangerously close to buying - if only I could have gotten used to the very soft attack.
I promised myself to buy one asap if I'd ever find a bolt-on one, unfortunately never happened.
-- all these guitars had one thing in common - extreme sustain
-- attack however was all over the place, with a few positive exceptions, but that's probably what separates the cream from the crime here
-- and I completely agree, all maple is not my favourite recipe for solidbodys by far
-- coincidentally none of all these stuck, the Hoyer or a Yamaha SG (which I never owned) could have been potential keepers.
-- imho you can find set-neck or even bolt-on guitars that have similarly impressive sustain without the mentioned issues - if you look hard enough.

Sorry for the long answer, but the guitars really were that different.
Don't know about you, but I vaguely see a few patterns there, if you consider the different construction of the examples mentioned.
Cheers,
susiwong

[Uncle E]

Thanks! That's exactly why I brought it up, to get your impression on the matter. I'll probably still go ahead with it, just to see what happens, but I doubt it's something I'll ever pursue commercially.

[deastman]

I've been thinking a lot lately about getting some kind of Les Paul to complement my Strat. What does everyone think about the Gibson Les Paul Studio models vs. the Standard or Standard Traditional Pro models? And I assume I should just bypass the Epiphones entirely?

And to take a sharp turn in a different direction, what do you think of the notion of building my own custom Les Paul from Warmoth parts?

[tapper mike]

I hated the studio. Yes it was lighter then a standard, But the tone was crass to my ears. The nut seemed incredibly high, The action even with light gauge strings was less then paul.

Unless you have experience building a set neck guitar,,,,,stop. You can prolly buy a better copy then you can build.

One thing separates a real Les Paul from a copy (amongst a million other things) is the tone. Gibson has an exclusive paint/finish approach that others who mass produce simply can't/wont do.
Shane Sanders occasionally pops in here he works for Gibson. He can give you the big rundown as to why gibsons are better. And after having owned a few I tend to agree with him.

[susiwong]

+1 about forgetting current Epis (except maybe the Elitists).
The mentioned LPs are close enough in construction to not go by series but by comparing individual guitars, the old way.
No mailorder here, I'm afraid.
Besides the obvious tone considerations, check especially for sustain, possible dead spots, truss rod leeway back/forth, PU squealing @ higher gain/volume, PU volume balance and possibly weight.
Typically high gain players tend to prefer ebony boards, blues players like rosewood better though that's not written in stone.
Don't rule out a s/h model if it compares well against a few others (mid 2002 to late 2004 sem to be especially sweet years), you'll be amazed by the differences between several LPs even of the same model.
Last but not least, don't overlook the cheapo "worn" versions, a bit warmer sounding due to the all mahogany body, but I've played some pretty nice examples.
Ymmv,
susiwong

Afaik Warmoth don't do set neck parts at all and their LP style parts have Fender scale, potentially nice but certainly no LP.

[susiwong]

I hated the studio. Yes it was lighter then a standard, But the tone was crass to my ears. The nut seemed incredibly high, The action even with light gauge strings was less then paul.

Structurally the Studios are almost identical to the Standards, except for PUs and neck binding.
Sounds more like you ran into a particularly bad example, though any decent shop will do a quick setup while you wait or at least till the next day in such a case.
Ymmv,
susiwong

[deastman]

Tapper Mike, Susiwong, thanks to both of you for your input. I don't have to have *exactly* a Standard LP, never having owned one before. What I'm looking for is high gain, a beautiful tone when played clean, and good solid construction. I have a local shop I trust to do a full setup so whatever I end up getting can sound its best. I do prefer very low action.

I would be fine with the bolt-on neck on a Warmoth as long as it still had a nice tone. I believe they do offer a LP scale version, although as a Strat player I'm fine with the Fender scale too. What really worries me is spending all that money and then not being able to assemble it precisely enough to end up with a playable instrument in the end. Perhaps I should talk to my local shop and see what kind of assistance they would be willing to provide.

Susiwong- are you suggesting that a Studio model would be worth considering, provided I can try it out in person?

I'm probably just dense, but I don't know what you were referring to by "Don't rule out a s/h model". My friend, a dedicated LP player since the early 80's, feels Gibson hasn't made a decent instrument since that time period. I'm not sure how to reconcile that with your recommendation to check out the 2002-2004 models. Also, I'm looking around the various online retailers, but I'm not finding the "worn" versions you referred to.

Thanks again for the help!

[susiwong]

Susiwong- are you suggesting that a Studio model would be worth considering, provided I can try it out in person?

I'm probably just dense, but I don't know what you were referring to by "Don't rule out a s/h model". My friend, a dedicated LP player since the early 80's, feels Gibson hasn't made a decent instrument since that time period. I'm not sure how to reconcile that with your recommendation to check out the 2002-2004 models. Also, I'm looking around the various online retailers, but I'm not finding the "worn" versions you referred to.!

Ime the difference between identical models is huge, believe me, I've played a few Studios and Standards that outshined most Custom Shop models, though that's not the rule.
By all means compare ...
If we define a LP Std as having a mahogany 24.75" scale neck, rosewood fretboard, mahogany back, maple top and two HBs or P-90s - yes, most Studios are built like Standards. The difference is in cosmetics and hardware mostly.
Re years of production, you can find good and bad ones from any year, imho 2002-2004 represent the most lucky LP years since the 60s, ymmv.
My personal favourite is a Std from 2003, took me half a year to find it.

A bit on the heavy side but a tone monster, swapped the PUs for Pearly Gates.
All I said is a s/h LP might be a fine guitar, too, just make sure you compare it to a few others before buying, maybe bring your friend and his best LP.
Worn/faded models, the names change :
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/prod ... sku=517030
faded brown or faded cherry, $799
The all mahogany construction is a classic recipe, many '50s LP Customs didn't have maple tops either.
You'll probably want to change out the Burstbucker Pro PUs for better potted alternatives, no problem, they tend to sell for good money s/h.
Ymmv,
susiwong

[susiwong]

Hi Eric,
call me dumb, but I forgot the most obvious candidate :

Here you have an example of a mahogany neck-thru with great tone.
If you need further proof check out Warren Haynes (he often plays a PAF equipped one), vintage Johnny Winter, Sonny Landreth ...
Case closed.
Cheers,
susiwong

[tapper mike]

The studio I played was an 80's version in the 80's. I was no stranger to Les Pauls at the time having a 59 gold top and a 78 custom. The studio light was the sorriest excuse for a gibson paul I had ever played. I tested it with a Fender twin and a Marshall JCM

[deastman]

The studio I played was an 80's version in the 80's. I was no stranger to Les Pauls at the time having a 59 gold top and a 78 custom. The studio light was the sorriest excuse for a gibson paul I had ever played. I tested it with a Fender twin and a Marshall JCM

I take it you haven't tried the currently manufactured Studio model? Just wondering if the quality has improved since the 80's.

[tapper mike]

That would be correct.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Played a 1998 and a 2002 LP Studio and both were very fine guitars, high-gain: whack a set of EMG's in their or Duncan Blackout's and bob's your uncle. I would make sure that you played the guitar first before buying to be sure it suits you and sounds right, buying deaf and blind is like playing russian rulette IMHO

Peace out

[Uncle E]

Regarding Les Paul pickups, I took the advice of the Seymour Duncan forum and put a Custom 5 in mine. It's amazing how much of an improvement that made.