August Contest: Gossip

[Psy-T]

Well, thanks for elaborating, Sleek Month.
Now it's clear as a difference of opinion and/or taste. I feel the arpeggio makes for a strong enough 'lead' on its own, and that leitmotif in music is enough to qualify a piece as a theme (well, so long as it's actually used in conjunction with some other medium, otherwise it's only a potential theme, I guess), and you don't.

Happy belated birthday Sleek Month, and thanks for the kind words everyone.

[xh3rv]

...they think the big ones with strong melodic signatures. Batman. Star Wars ...

Thanks for your reviews and bringing up this discussion - it's thought provoking, and ultimately theoretical in a good way. Like others I have some disagreements but I'm not offended, and don't think you're wrong - I think you're making a good point, and a cinematic score very thick with leitmotifs is an impressive thing when it works. (When it doesn't, I think we've all sat through a failed attempt at a John Williams score ...).

I do think there's more than one way to do things though.

You mentioned Batman and Star Wars, which both have the signature lines you want. But maybe these are some interesting examples of a different approach:

- This is really interesting because it's borrowing from Danny Elfman's Batman stuff in some ways (modified, adapated, but obviously descendent from), but not formally in terms of specific musical lines. Both Elfman and Zimmer won Grammys for Batman stuff!

- This track is played during the part of Star Wars Episode III that is the most expositive about Palpatine's cataclysmic imperial motives. Towards the end the leitmotifs pop up but not in a way that overpowers the dark, brooding sound - rather it evolves from it. A lot of music in Star Wars becomes part of the set - you know you're on an imperial ship or Darth Vader is about to pop up when that motif is played. Here, it becomes part of Palpatine's monologue. This is my favorite scene by far from the prequel trilogy, and I remember really liking the way the sound contributed to it while seeing it for the first time.

- Brian Eno's Prophecy Theme is a theme that doesn't feature any extremely concrete melody. Like the movie it's from, it's not as well-known and it's a little more particular on who gets excited about it, but there are plenty of people who really do like this.

In all of these, I think there's a very strong sense of 'theme' despite not having bits you could hum along with. I'm not completely clear on whether you're saying a movie theme has to have a catchy melodic riff - I think demonstrably it doesn't, there are other dimensions which can also serve as a thematic foundation - or whether you're just saying that's your preference - that's fine, and I think you do particularly well with that sort of thing from what I've heard from you, all of which I've enjoyed.

[e] And happy birthday to those, also I don't participate in a lot of these contests but always enjoy Max's singular ability to do ... whatever it is that you do and glad to hear you're well.

[Mike777]

all good points by xh3rv, a 'theme' does not have to be singable-melodic, point taken. But who knows the theme to Dune? I don't. But I know the theme to Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and who doesn't recognize the famous 5 note motif from that movie? Even now, when I happen across a toy xylophone, I have the urge to play that 5 note motif!

Obviously, the type of movie helps dictate the score, and a catchy theme is not needed, nor often desired by the director. Trailers often don't even feature a movies main theme these days- I watched the trailer to "Inception" and if the movie has a great theme they don't play it the trailer- all I heard was typical cinematic percussion and orchestra 'hits' (granted most scenes in the trailer are very dramatic).

I am more a tradionalist myself and enjoy well composed melodic themes. I feel I get more for my movie $ when I hear a great theme and composed score, rather then just arps and riffs from those like Brian Eno. I watched a Philip Glass movie recently and even his arp riffs became very 'melodic' in certain scenes.

So when someone expects a movie to have a well crafted melodic theme, yes, it's not necessary, but I understand why they prefer it. We still think great movies should have great themes. We've become accustomed to that.

[Daniel Pompougnac]

Thanks for votes.

Mike777, I'm very interested with your words, thank's to you.

beautiful, kinda short

Yes, it's true, only 2:00, my pieces are shorter and shorter with the years.
Because I like more and more haikus (very short japanese poems, only 3 verses, usually).
All my pieces are created reading some haikus on the web.
Shorter and shorter with silences and chops... It's a minimalistic way, not easy. I'm learning.
But I understand your opinion, my pieces can disturb. Too short.

For example, today, I'm creating a new piece with this haiku >

November clouds -
a blue scarf
on the meadow's fence

I've found it here >
http://haikus-au-fil-des-jours.wifeo.co ... nglish.php

[D.H. Miltz]

Thanks for the reviews, Sleek Month.

Max, glad to hear the good news.

And (belated by now) happy birthday, Psy-T.

[xh3rv]

all good points by xh3rv, a 'theme' does not have to be singable-melodic, point taken. But who knows the theme to Dune? I don't. But I know the theme to Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and who doesn't recognize the famous 5 note motif from that movie? Even now, when I happen across a toy xylophone, I have the urge to play that 5 note motif!

Do you mean the probability someone would recognize Eno's theme versus the Close Encounters theme? I think it's kind of a tough comparison to make. In Close Encounters the motif is literally part of the plot, which makes it sort of hard to miss. With Eno's theme, I'd argue it's not unmelodic but the way fragments fade between being a bit melodic or more harmonic is actually a motif (it fits that way with the rest of the soundtrack, done separately by Toto, and not nearly as interesting as what Eno did IMO).

The other thing of course is Dune, though having a following, is infamous for bombing at the box office. A lot less people have seen that one.

FWIW I actually can't stand the Close Encounters motif at all . It hits me the exact same way a commercial jingle does, gets stuck in my head the way gum gets stuck on my shoe. I don't feel that way about anything else John Williams has done.

Trailers often don't even feature a movies main theme these days- I watched the trailer to "Inception" and if the movie has a great theme they don't play it the trailer- all I heard was typical cinematic percussion and orchestra 'hits' (granted most scenes in the trailer are very dramatic).

There's actually something pretty concrete behind this. The trailer wasn't done by Hans Zimmer, has nothing to do with Zimmer's score other than it's a bit of a stylistic knock-off. It's not an uncommon thing for trailer music, since they can go out while the movie is still in some form of production.

I am more a tradionalist myself and enjoy well composed melodic themes. I feel I get more for my movie $ when I hear a great theme and composed score, rather then just arps and riffs from those like Brian Eno. I watched a Philip Glass movie recently and even his arp riffs became very 'melodic' in certain scenes. So when someone expects a movie to have a well crafted melodic theme, yes, it's not necessary, but I understand why they prefer it. We still think great movies should have great themes. We've become accustomed to that.

I definitely don't think there's anything wrong with a Star Wars or a James Bond approach to a soundtrack. I did want to articulate something about a different approach, I'm finding this pretty stimulating just to think about. I guess I'm a little surprised that anyone would feel strongly enough about this that they would categorically promote one or the other - I think there's pure gold and pure dung to be found in either of these approaches. Similarly with approaches we're not even talking about, like a Pulp Fiction or period pieces or whatever else I can't think of right now.

In the end I think good soundtracks can have elements of either approach anyway, not necessarily 50/50 but to some degree. I would definitely make that case for a few tracks submitted here - lex_strodder's I think might be the best in this way. I tried to do this a little with my track, could've taken that further or in a different order or something, although the way it is still makes perfect sense to me. 'Course, the pure dung principle would apply any which way.

[Emerald Tablet]

catchy ghostbusters version liqih.
I find your version cooler than the original.
Never liked the song that much and i have heared a few rapsongs with that them
I must have heard it too ofte. still you get my vote for awesome execution.

[Laguna Rising]

Thanks so much for the votes, guys ( to Mello).
Looking forward to the next one.

Cheers

[farlukar]

Reminder to MarklefordRadio-fans: here's my replacement...

[Scoops]

Ok

Hot off the presses!

I love the dissertation this month on the theme. What it is, or what it's not.
It makes us all more knowledgeable!

For those that like to get a head start, next month will be a free for all, However, there will be a catch. In addition to your musical comp, you will need to do a review of your top 10, which will be the minimally accepted entry.

(idea not fully developed so there's tweaking room. Let me know your thoughts)

I just think it's time for everybody to share their thoughts on op's creations

Have a nice day

-Scps

[offthewall]

As one who so often does not have the confidence to do reviews I think the 'must do reviews' part is great .... it is going to force me into something I am a bit scared of, which is a good, constructive dictate.
However, I am NOT happy about the 'free for all' aspect. I have been going through a really difficult dry spell, musically, recently. Have had little incentive, no stimulation and been so much in the doldrums that I have almost given up on composition. A free for all is the last thing I want, personally.
I was really looking forward to a new theme, a new challenge, something a bit different to maybe give me a kick in the butt to get the old act together.

Just my small opinion, Pete


James

[1-2-Many]

Reminder to MarklefordRadio-fans: here's my replacement...

Cool - Thanks for carrying this on. I always appreciated having the central site for downloading everything that Markleford provided...so a belated thanks to Markleford as well for doing it so long.

[Sleek Month]

However, there will be a catch. In addition to your musical comp, you will need to do a review of your top 10, which will be the minimally accepted entry.

You DO realize that some people are going to post a jpeg of a tree and say it is THEIR interpretation of a review, don't you?

[rifftrax]

However, there will be a catch. In addition to your musical comp, you will need to do a review of your top 10, which will be the minimally accepted entry.

You DO realize that some people are going to post a jpeg of a tree and say it is THEIR interpretation of a review, don't you?

Now that you mention it, that's definitely what I'll be doing.

[liqih]

BTW did Lex Strooder say where that fiddle solo and voice comes from?

ps Thanks remco & pheeleep