Copyrighting your own music

[P.T.]

It just costs $30-40 to copyright an entire collection/album.
If you can't afford that then you probably can't afford a court case.
And if you don't want to spend $30-40 then you probably don't have much faith in the musics ability to ever be financially worthwhile to you.

[t41]

I seriously doubt uploading songs to soundcloud, soundclick, bandcamp, etc would hold up in a court of law, in the US anyway. For one thing the song can be changed or altered at any time and I'm not so sure the sites keep records of things like changes or altering of songs. But even if they did, it probably wouldn't be enough evidence to be of much use in a court of law. Probably no better than the worthless so-called poor man's copyright method.

From what I understand about the whole copyright process is that it really depends on how many good lawyers you have on your side. So for example, let's say some established artist steals one or more of your songs, they usually have a record company on their side with much deeper pockets than you, so in that case you'll in all probability lose against such odds. But in a case where joe average steals one of your songs, provided they have been previously copyrighted by you, and you have a decent attorney on your team, you would probably win in that case. Of course YMMV.

[buscemi]

cant you just put a rough demo on a public hosting website (like soundcloud or soundclick or whatever) and then be automatically covered because you created it. its cheaper than mailing yourself a letter and surely a third parties metadata would be by very nature unbaised.

You know what's really cheap? Doing it right.

[yairhol]

This is the poor man's version of protecting your music. Place all pertinent materials, cds, lyrics, files, etc, in an envelope and send them via registered mail to yourself. Upon reception, do not open. Store the envelope in a safe place. A safetey deposit box is recommended.

Ciao!

This is exactly the official email response I got from the copyright office of where I live. When/if the time arrives where you need to use this in order to prove your copyright, there are methods to determine whether the envelope was opened before or not.
Although this is the response I got, as an amateur who will probably never get a hit song that will be heard anywhere, this method is good enough for me. If you are a pro, I suggest doing it the slower more official and more expensive way.

[t41]

Everything I've ever read or heard on the subject of the so-called poor man's copyright method is that it is completely worthless in a court in the US. But I have heard in Great Britain it might be another story - but I'm not 100% sure about this. So its value can vary from country to country. But in the USA it's worthless.

There has never been a case in the US where a poor man's copyright has held up in a court of law. They simply won't go through the trouble to test when the glue was applied to an envelope and it can't be proven when the envelope was sealed. I challenge you to find one expert who can prove when an envelope was sealed and then have this hold up in any court in the US. But then if you try to go to court with only a poor man's copyright as proof, you'll never even make it to court.

But here's an interesting site I found after searching around a bit. http://myfreecopyright.com/ This site claims that for free you can upload your material here and you'll have some protection for your songs.
Now, I'm not saying this is as good as an official US copyright (or your countries copyright method), but maybe it could work in some minor cases or for those who are cash poor.

I wouldn't want to go up against big record company attorneys though with only uploads to this site and the confirmation emails they send you as proof of when I uploaded my songs, but perhaps against joe average it could be of some help - e.g. small claims court. I'll have to look into more to see if it has any value or not.

[buscemi]

I'll stick with under $50 to copyright a group of songs together here in the U.S. officially and $70 for ASCAP membership as both a writer and publisher for better advice than much of this thread and related services and call that WAY more than reasonable for protecting and collecting from my creative works. I still don't see it being expensive in the least, at least here in the U.S.

In context of this forum and what some of us spend on other tools of the trade, is this really that expensive?

[t41]

One problem I think a lot of people have with sending in official copyrighted works is not that it costs $35 for a collection of songs, but that they are often works in progress and they may change the song(s) many times before it is finally completed.

The final product can often be quite different from the original song, even completely different, in some cases. This can go on for years with some songs, I know it has for me.

So the question is, do I wait and wait for the song to be completed in its final form or get the copyright sent in now to protect a song that may never be in the end. I usually end up waiting myself.

[lfm]

One problem I think a lot of people have with sending in official copyrighted works is not that it costs $35 for a collection of songs, but that they are often works in progress and they may change the song(s) many times before it is finally completed.

The final product can often be quite different from the original song, even completely different, in some cases. This can go on for years with some songs, I know it has for me.

So the question is, do I wait and wait for the song to be completed in its final form or get the copyright sent in now to protect a song that may never be in the end. I usually end up waiting myself.

To me it's a strange idea to copyright anything that is not ready.

Why would you do that?

You don't spread your work around while still writing, are you?

[buscemi]

Yes, why would you copyright something that is specifically not what can be registered? Finish your work, register it. I feel the risk of waiting for a group of songs to be ready isn't all that bad in my case, being prolific is different from being good though

[Gregadeth]

I'll stick with under $50 to copyright a group of songs together here in the U.S. officially and $70 for ASCAP membership as both a writer and publisher for better advice than much of this thread and related services and call that WAY more than reasonable for protecting and collecting from my creative works. I still don't see it being expensive in the least, at least here in the U.S.

In context of this forum and what some of us spend on other tools of the trade, is this really that expensive?

I don't think that's very expensive at all. I'm in the USA. The thought of it being different for each country didn't even dawn on me. What's an ASCAP membership and what does it do?

Thanks so much for all your help/replies everyone. Very Much appreciated.

[buscemi]

ASCAP is a PRO (Performing Rights Organization) that helps monitor public performances of your works (as writer, publisher, or both) thus protecting that side of your rights and distributing to you the appropriate compensation.

[Nighthawk77]

You could always do the poor mans copyright.
Simply mail it to yourself and when you receive it don't open it.
It has been stamped and dated and can serve as documentation if need be.

[thenumber23]

Summary of methods of copyright protection in the USA


Attempt to protect copyright / Cost / Legal protection
* Put the proper (C) mark on your work / $0 / None

* Mail it to yourself / $2 / None

* Upload it to a server / $0 / None

* Filing form PA or SR with the copyright office / $35+ / Can be used as evidence in legal proceedings.


Or, to reiterate in a Mastercard commercial kind of way:

Recording of your music on a CDR -- $0.50

Mailing it to yourself -- $1.79

The look on your face when the judge throws out your 'evidence' -- Priceless

[mistaskanless]

Here is a novel thought. You could get a master copy with an unchangable datestamp like I give all My clients that pay in full. Cost = a blank DVD or CD, Legal stuff = it will hold water. They themselves may or may not be able to use it but who would be putting thier masters in to listen to?

[buscemi]

You could always do the poor mans copyright.
Simply mail it to yourself and when you receive it don't open it.
It has been stamped and dated and can serve as documentation if need be.

This has been covered in the thread. NEVER has this been used in a court of law at all. Wouldn't likely be very effective anyway, it has been dispelled as myth countless times, KVR is not the first place to discuss this. Good luck with that, saving $35 never felt better until your in front of a judge.