Best way to handle changing samples in Kontakt?

[jplanet]

I am looking for the best way to switch samples in Kontakt using Cantabile Performer between sub-sessions...I'd prefer not using multiple instances of Kontakt if possible (one attempt to do this led to a crash)...

[TiUser]

...one of the things I asked myself too...

Maybe one solution is to preload all instruments you want and assign them to different midi channels in Kontakt player. Then just select the midi channel matching the sound you want to play in the Cantabile rack.

Make sure that "Subsession behavior" - "Midi in" is checked.

Of course this does only work if you do not need to many different sounds in one session and keep the needed samples in memory.

...BTW... I hate loading samples... IMHO it takes far too long to provide anything close to instant access to sounds... Kurzweil shortly made it with it's latest keyboard, equipped with a non volatile user loadable sample memory... load your personal samples once and never reload them again and power on the workstation instantly! Hope PC solutions will keep up to this soon too.

[jplanet]

Thanks for the tip on MIDI channels, that sounds like the way to go - but leads me to another question. I use program changes to select sub-sessions - is there some way to change a rack's MIDI input channel while sending a program change message? I couldn't find it in the list of available commands in the MIDI filter....if I can do that somehow, it would be a perfect way of switching sounds in Kontakt simultaneously with sub-session changes...

[TiUser]

This is why I said: "Make sure that "Subsession behavior" - "Midi in" is checked." in the relevant rack(s).

The midi channel changes should happen then automatically with the subsession changes... just set "Midi in" in the related rack for each subsession to the channel needed to address the wanted sound.

[jplanet]

That wasn't working, but I think it might be because my controller is only sending on channel 1 - it's a Casio Privia PX-310. I'll probably need to use MIDI OX to get it to transmit on all channels, as I don't see any easy way to change MIDI channels form the keyboard...

[bburtin]

I think the right way to do this is with program changes. Create a Kontakt bank with multiple instruments. Then create separate subsessions in Cantabile for each instrument in the bank. Add a trigger to each subsession to send a program change to Kontakt. When you switch from one subsession to another, it then sends the program change to Kontakt to switch the instrument.

[jplanet]

I think the right way to do this is with program changes. Create a Kontakt bank with multiple instruments. Then create separate subsessions in Cantabile for each instrument in the bank. Add a trigger to each subsession to send a program change to Kontakt. When you switch from one subsession to another, it then sends the program change to Kontakt to switch the instrument.

Ah, interesting idea about creating a bank in Kontakt, I've only explored that feature very little and it sounds like it will make sense...Thanks!

[TiUser]

...well that's another option to use program changes, but I always found this a bit messy in cantabile - I'd prefer to have this integrated in the racks rather than the triggers...

I am also not experienced enough in Kontakt if switching sound this way causes interruptions or glitches.

The change of rack midi in channels per subsessions works. If your keyboard can not send on multiple channels you can also use the channel assign midi filter, either in a midi routing or on a per subsession basis. Ok, this is not quite straight forward but there are some options.

[tkmh]

I use the trigger method with Kontakt Banks. It is very cumbersome
and irritating, but, at least it works pretty smoothly-no glitches.
I PM'd BradR awhile back regarding (him) figuring out a way to just
save sub-sessions with the Kontakt Banks in the state you leave them in at
the moment, (no triggers).
His reply was to the effect> "Changing banks via ProgCh (triggers) is a very simple midi action. Saving them in their momentary state is not really do-able,because Kontakt banks have a GUI (mouse click) layer that is not addressable by midi or anything in Cantabile. Notice that only the first
instrument is visible in the preset drop-down box in your rack, no matter
what instrument in the bank you choose."
So it's basically something you would have to get after Native Instruments
to change-not Brad R.

BTW TiUser: what is this Kurzweil keyboard you speak of? I don't recall
hearing of any of their recent keyboards having flash ram!
That's interesting!
tkmh

[TiUser]

...concerning the program change triggers, I think it would be more "natural" to select these in the racks instead of vst patches rather than in separate triggers - which I think are more suitable for external gear.

Concerning Kurzweil, see for "PC3 K" it's the latest top of the line model the've just introduced.

http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/

I really think flashing user samples once is very innovative and should be where all samplers should go. Minutes of loading each time you power a unit up - or load pc sample players - is not the future to challenge romplers...

[Gregjazz]

If switching between patches in a KONTAKT instrument bank using the program change MIDI message is inconvenient, you should check out Orange Tree Samples' new MIND CONTROL add-on: http://www.orangetreesamples.com/mind-control

There's a demonstration video on the product page.

[jplanet]

Wow, very nice find, thanks for posting that!

[TiUser]

I think the Orange Tree tool is meant to switch between articulations in one sound. Wow, I'm looking for long for something like this...

However, I think the original posters question was how to change total sounds with subsessions...

[Ashville.Guru]

Hello everyone,
I've been in the same situation as the OP describes.

is there some way to change a rack's MIDI input channel while sending a program change message? I couldn't find it in the list of available commands in the MIDI filter....if I can do that somehow, it would be a perfect way of switching sounds in Kontakt simultaneously with sub-session changes...

Here's a solution works perfectly for me: I use MidiKarval's Channels Mapper, available for free here. First, I insert the plugin just before Kontakt in the rack. Next, I map the incoming midi channel to the corresponding channel of the instrument in Kontakt. Nice thing about Channels Mapper is that you can actually name the mapping, and the name will show up in Cantabile, under the plugin's program! And yes, the map changes with subssession... I've used it live, and it works flawlessly, with seamless transitions.

One caveat with working with MidiKarval's Channels Mapper, though: if your mapping has n instances of a in-out combination, then each event is replicated n times. This is potentially dangerous - CPU usage shoots up and notes are dropped! Easy to avoid it, though: e.g. if your incoming channel is 1, and you have a Kontakt instrument assigned to 4, then ensure that there is only one 1->4 assignment in your mapping. There are other free midi plugins that do the same thing, such as the PizMidi's midiChs_noGUI. I used MidiKarval's version for the nice naming feature mentioned above, plus the midi indicators in version 1.1.

BTW, this is my first post in this wonderful forum - I hope it's useful to someone! Hi to everyone, and my kudos to everyone behind Cantabile.
Cheers,

Guru

[TiUser]

Nice workaround.

Again I think it's time for a feature request addressing this.

I am not sure but I think I remember there once was an option to activate / deactivate midi filters on a subsession basis... just could not find that feature - maybe it was cut again? Cantabile has already a channel map filter, so only thing needed would be to create any mappings needed and activate them on a subsession basis - the checkboxes are already there - they seem just not be subsession sensitive...