Is there a sound problem on mixdown with FL Studio or not?

[rifftrax]

...without the top mathematical equations and what not, then the sound is doomed, hence the low price of flstudio compared to programs such as sonar etc.

..and what not....i like that

proper science always leaves room for the unexplainable

hence, the what not

I love it...anyone else have any good threads like that?

[tony tony chopper]

The file exported with Mu.Lab sounded better and more clear.

feel free to attach the projects so that everyone can test..


I don't know why people are imagining different qualities in different hosts, especially talking about plugins. A VST plugin generates sound on its own, without any help from the host. Saying that a plugin's output is different in different hosts would be like saying its GUI looks less contrasted, more blurry in some hosts, or like claiming that a calculator VST outputs 1+1=3 in some hosts. A plugin can be broken in some hosts, that's true, but it's likely to tell you (if it even opens) there's a bug in obvious ways, like crackling audio or crashes. But "color", "crispiness" or whatever meaningless term about digital audio.. IMHO a musician should be required to know a minimum about digital audio, or not claim he knows if he's only thinking using his ears.

[sorohanro]

I don't want this to turn into a "flame war". It is just an opinion, my opinion, which is based on my personal experience, not on what I read on some blog/ article or seen on tv.
As a musician, I rely on what I hear. Got some positive experience with that for now.
I do not know too much about terms of digital sound processing and I don't know anything about equations and all insides of hosts or plugins. What I say it's just a feedback as a user.

Strange that some other FL users had similar impressions.

I will try to make a project and post later so anyone can test. I'm quite busy at the moment , so I can't promise that will be very soon, sorry for that.

[Totolitoto]

You should read this thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

[sorohanro]

Good link. I'll chew a bit on it, thanks.

[rifftrax]

I love when tony chopper steps in ask and question and the OP of that thread has no clue he's then talking with the guy who programmed what he's using. LOL!! That was too funny for words.

there are some seriously great threads here, no doubt

[sorohanro]

Dear Tony (and as I learned aka Gol).
I have a great respect for your work and I don't want to be understood wrong. First, my opinion was based only by what I hear and just today I took time to make actually a test.
The results are interesting. Apparently what I could hear was correct.
Mediafire seems to be down, so I upload to uploading.com.
There are 2 wav files, a midi file, a FL project file and a Mu.Lab project file.
http://uploading.com/files/c5em3745/TestFLvsMuLab.zip/
Technical details:
Bass made with 4Front Bass VSTi http://www.yohng.com/bass.html
Hammond made with Organized Trio http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=37
Drums made with Addictive Drums Demo http://www.xlnaudio.com/?page=downloads ... emoversion
Trumpet, first loop from one of my free loops packs http://audio.tutsplus.com/freebies/loop ... oops-in-c/

Trumpet was in FL loaded into sampler (I have only a Fruity Edition) and in Mu.Lab was loaded in the simple sampler (just to use similar tools).
No effects, no compression/ limiting, all channels to default settings.
FL project rendered to 32 bit float using 512 sampler interpolation, Mu.Lab project rendered to 16 bit. This I made to emulate exactly what a user can get for free (FL demo can render at the best quality settings but Mu.Lab demo/ free can not).

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[IncarnateX]

these are classics I couldn't even begin to decipher the utter 'wrongness' in that last one...

IMO they are sometimes too naive to be true. At least, if want a little wind up trolling rolling on KVR, all you have to do is to post BS about different sounding DAWs and you will have the inquisition arriving in seconds.

[sorohanro]

...FL project rendered to 32 bit float using 512 sampler interpolation, Mu.Lab project rendered to 16 bit...

so you did exactly the same thing, didn't you?!?

Well, as I said, I tried to figure out from the point of view of a new user that can use only the demo versions, but I see what you mean. I will render both at the same quality.

There is a midi file in the zip, so you can import same midi file in whatever DAW you want and put same instruments and see the results for yourself.

[ariston]

Saying that a plugin's output is different in different hosts would be like saying its GUI looks less contrasted, more blurry in some hosts,

you know, it's really true, my vst plugins look much better in Live than in Reaper... honest, I swear!

[jupiter8]

I don't want this to turn into a "flame war". It is just an opinion, my opinion,

Only problem with that is that you can actually measure this stuff, so it is not an opinion whether there's a difference or not. Only right or wrong and you my friend is wrong.

[tony tony chopper]

Quickly checking, yes there's a difference. The simple time delay between both wavs tells me there's a latency coming from some (compressor?) somewhere.

Within the first 2 seconds, the bass cancels, the hihat doesn't.
Possible reasons (anyone knows MuLab enough to check?)
-there is compression (the initial silence in the MuLab version has to be cleared up)
-the hihat is synthesized (I doubt in this case) or random-layered (very possible), and won't produce twice the same results. Do you know if 2 hihats are identical out of that drum plugin?
<- I'm told that there IS random layering in AD, and that it can be bypassed? You first need to make sure that no randomness occurs in the renderings, for proper comparison.
-there's a +-1 rounding difference in the velocities possibly, or some velocity scaling setting you've overlooked, and it's not the same sample that's triggered.

Will check more tomorrow.

I will render both at the same quality.

the rendering qualities won't be known by the plugins. At best the plugin knows FL is rendering when you switch "rendering notify" on in the wrapper. Not many plugins support this so it's most likely not where the difference is.

I'd start by making easier test projects, like only using 1 plugin. The bass cancels so the diff is most likely in Addictive Drums. But it may be difficult to replicate all the same settings in different hosts.

[Meffy]

you know, it's really true, my vst plugins look much better in Live than in Reaper... honest, I swear!

This can be true... if you're using Live's built-in knobs instead of bringing up the plug-in's GUI, and you happen to like the Ableton look better than the plug's GUI.

[sorohanro]

To be more clear about my projects:
No compressor used, actually no effects. (well, there is a compressor and a EQ inside the Addictive Drums, but that affects only the drum and it's the default patch in it, used the same patch in both projects).

After finishing the FL project, I replaced all the VSTi with a "midi out", exported the midi and imported it in Mu.Lab (so no velocity difference).
All VSTi plugins use the same patch, their default patch, in both projects.
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On a slightly unrelated note, FL is by far the easiest tool to use from composer/ arranger point of view.