Is there a sound problem on mixdown with FL Studio or not?

[tony tony chopper]

After finishing the FL project, I replaced all the VSTi with a "midi out", exported the midi and imported it in Mu.Lab (so no velocity difference).

that doesn't mean no difference, in FL the velocity isn't encoded in 0..127 MIDI. But anyway, I edited my post, check the bit about random layering in AD, you have to make sure to disable that.
That doesn't explain the delay at the font of the rendering in MuLabs, though. It's not silence, and it's around 2ms, that looks like a compressor's delay. Was "delay compensation" checked when you rendered in FL? In FL's audio settings, is "align tick lengths" off? (should be)
Is any of the plugins reporting a delay?

[sorohanro]

Well, as a user, how can I know about "encoded in 0..127 MIDI" ?
I know from a musician point of view, I play a melody on my keyboard and I expect the instrument to sound sort of... how I play it...

Anyway, in the zip there is the midi file, so, from a logical point of view, I expect the same midi file played by the same VSTi to sound the same, regardless of DAW.

I will check on Addictive drums and I'll be back with more testing.

[tony tony chopper]

Well, as a user, how can I know about "encoded in 0..127 MIDI" ?

I'm not saying that the differences in host's defaults are necessarily obvious. Yes different hosts come with different default settings (no reason they would default to the same), but that doesn't make a difference in "audio engines". So that's the key here, finding where the settings differ, knowing that there's no such a thing as an audio engine that could color a plugin's sound because of inferior-quality bits or whatever.
And to prove that it's only the settings, we have to render results that cancel. And for this we have to remove the randomness factor entirely, which means no random layers, no free-running osc in synths, no noise-based synthesis, etc. A test that would end up proving that a host sounds different/better than itself isn't a valid test.

I expect the same midi file played by the same VSTi to sound the same

not necessarily (MIDI is just an interchange format, it doesn't necessarily map the same way in different hosts). But I checked, and yes the velocities are the same (in FL that is). The notes differ by 1 tick in length but that's most likely not what makes a big difference.

[sorohanro]

Yep... turned off the layers in Addictive Drums, render at the same quality (16 bit).
Mu.Lab file is louder and the rest of differencies I'll post after I take a deeper look.

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unrelated note: f**k, tomorrow I have to give already 2 songs orchestrated from scratch... probably this is the last test for today

[tony tony chopper]

Mu.Lab file is louder

yes it will be louder, of course the final test should be based on normalized results. That's pretty much where I'm aiming at, proving that the difference is always loudness (thus default level settings).
Loudness is generally mistaken with "quality", which is normal for the end listener (or we wouldn't be killing dynamics trying to make our music louder), but a musician should know how to compare things at the same levels.
[I see the 1 tick difference is in my MIDI export, so better make sure that it's exactly the same score in both hosts. I would suggest using FL's piano roll->File->Export as MIDI file, this one is the most accurate, MIDI goes straight to the file, it's not passing by plugins in-between]

[sorohanro]

Normalized both.

[sorohanro]

Couldn't resist...
Checked.
Bass don't cancel completely but almost, drums also cancel almost, Hammond don't cancel at all (we blame it on the Leslie simulator) and trumpet cancel just a little bit ... hmmmm ....

[tony tony chopper]

Bass don't cancel completely but almost, drums also cancel almost

Bass cancels completely if you align the results (there's 16bit noise left because the MuLabs wav is 16bit). That also means that there's no timing difference in both hosts btw.
The rest doesn't cancel at all. To know why, the random factor has to be taken out of the test (maybe there's randomness in the other instruments as well).
The sample shouldn't cancel, it would only if both are using the same resampling quality (this is where the export settings matter). But you won't get better than the 512-points sinc in FL. But since it was said that the internal sample was used, most likely the levels were different anyway, they have to be adjusted of course.

"Organized Trio" is a synth, there's possibly randomness in it (could be free-running oscillators that will produce different results depending on notes you have played before, or clock-based randomness). Maybe there's a way to skip it, maybe not. Note that it's also made with synthedit, multithreading has to be disabled for such plugins. To know if it's a valid plugin for testing, I'd suggest exporting twice in a row, then comparing the wavs from the same host.
So what's left is the trumpet, you really have to make sure that it's the same level in both, and tell which resampling quality (if resampling occured) was chosen in MuLabs.

[nucleon]

Hi. Here are test projects and renders with 4 audio tracks in both FL and MuLab...

http://uploading.com/files/d528f25f/FL% ... BTest.zip/

(Avoid the spam ads on this upload site btw).

They both render the same.

The renders cancel when one is phase inverted and are summed together.

[tony tony chopper]

nucleon also told me that the organ plugin had a rotary speaker & other stuff that won't produce twice the same results, thus it's not a valid one to test cancellation (unless you can resync the rotary speaker). If we can't cancel out 2 renderings in the same or different hosts, then we'd have to revert to pointless testing by ear, which won't make anything move further.

You just need to find a couple of plugins in which no randomization occurs, and then once it's proven that they all produce the same results, you will have to assume that all plugins do, and that the host doesn't alter what's produced by the plugin (as this would require something done on purpose).

[sorohanro]

hmmmm.... downloading right now.

[Nokenoku]

Ok, I could write about a thousand lines on the why and how, but I just make it easy:

IT WAS PROVEN A HUNDRET TIMES NOW, THAT A DAW/SEQUENCER DOES NOT AFFECT THE SOUND!

End of story.



People, who claim otherwise, do simply not understand, that they're:
a) fooled by an expectation bias
b) actually doing different things in different hosts (even if they think they'd do the same, because they haven't read/understood the manuals)

[deleted]

DELETED

[Nokenoku]

+1
I'm always impressed with the patience some people have to explain it again, and again, and again .. and again ... and again ......

I've already lost this patience after a few hundret times of participating ...

[fanfarecircuit]

i blame reflex.