Is there a sound problem on mixdown with FL Studio or not?

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nucleon wrote:
sorohanro wrote:@ Nucleon
nucleon wrote: Are you playing back the sax with the MuLabs sampler or as an audio track btw?
In both programs the trumpet loop was played by sampler. I tried my best to keep same approach and make the project as similar as I can.
Thanks.

Seems its sampler dosnt output at the same level as the FL sampler or audio clips.

Along with the output level of different vst plugins being slightly different between apps, and not all by the same amount, it effectivly means the songs end up differently mixed at default.

Tho that dosnt mean you cant set the same mix levels or better in either app.

There are no spectral changes, its just the ballance between the different instrument parts.

Audio tracks/clips play back at exactly the same level in FL, MuLab, Reaper and Live as in my first test.

If your using 'delay compensation' in the FL rendering settings that may explain why the MuLab version is 64 samples late.
This is the post that lays all of this to rest. What else is there to say?

There's no spectral changes. That's what this is always about....does one audio engine "color" the sound? Again, the answer is no.

The only thing detected is slight volume difference between some vsts. But you could produce exactly the same mix in both DAWs. The audio engine itself wouldn't change the spectral range of the audio.
jsp1979 wrote:
Sometimes the person is convinced....other times, they continue to believe.

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nucleon wrote:
sorohanro wrote:I will try my test again and this time without delay compensation.
If the results null themselves when one have inverted phase, even if the cancellation is less then 100% I will consider that a positive test to the "all DAWs sound the same" theory.
It will depend on the plugin volume settings I mention eariler.

With audio tracks, the results do null, as my first test.

This shows the mixing in different apps is the same when given the same audio signals set to the same levels.
+1

Did anyone read that post?

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Ok people, here's the new test.
Delay compensation disabled in FL, now both files are same lenght and starts EXACTLY at the same point.
Addictive Drums plugin with "single sample" option, all plugins the same as previous test, same midi file. Files rendered at the highest quality.

http://uploading.com/files/485ea8d9/New ... LvsMU.zip/

The rendered files I put together, one with phase inverted and... TA-DA !!!
- bass cancel almost completely,
- keyboards cancel but in some places you can hear some artifacts,
- drums also can hear some artifacts,
- trumpet doesn't cancel very much.

In the zip file you have the FL render, the Mu.Lab render and the difference when rendered both files together, one with phase inverted.
All files wav at 44.1 khz samplerate, 32 bit.

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rifftrax wrote:VST - they always ALWAYS sound the same because they only thing they interact with is note and controller data (MIDI), and audio in for FX.
That dosnt seem to be quite the case here regarding their default volume.

I think theres some gain change in the vst wrapper of one of the apps.

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sorohanro wrote:Ok people, here's the new test.
Delay compensation disabled in FL, now both files
Could you please also upload the FL zipped loop package, and the MuLab project?

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uploading.com says ive reached my daily download limit?

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rifftrax wrote: It should be a question of "which feature do you think makes DAW X more attractive?"
the quality of is output :D

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Could you please also upload the FL zipped loop package, and the MuLab project?
Sure, no problem.
http://uploading.com/files/2d84m9a9/New ... files.zip/

Some of my thoughts.
All DAWs, including FL and Mu.Lab are targeted to musicians and/or sound engineers. The program's output is a sound file, most of the times a music product, not just an abstract calculation that should be correct from all the mathematic and physics and programing point of view.

If a musician is feeling that something is wrong, as a developer, you should probably fix that somehow. After all, this is your client, not other developers that might say "no... this guy is crazy, don't listen to him" while they develop a concurrent product.
If most of musicians with less mixing experience are fooled by "louder=better, then you should put a normalizing output option.

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nucleon wrote:uploading.com says ive reached my daily download limit?
:-o
ok, I put on mediafire:
http://www.mediafire.com/?d501bkwd3irrh
That's the folder, now uploadein wav files as well as projects.

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sorohanro wrote: If a musician is feeling that something is wrong, as a developer, you should probably fix that somehow.
How can you fix something that isn't broken to begin with ? FLStudio does it the way everybody does it,so what's to fix ? If people don't know how to adjust the volume on their tracks maybe music isn't for them.

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jupiter8 wrote:
sorohanro wrote: If a musician is feeling that something is wrong, as a developer, you should probably fix that somehow.
How can you fix something that isn't broken to begin with ? FLStudio does it the way everybody does it,so what's to fix ? If people don't know how to adjust the volume on their tracks maybe music isn't for them.
I know that is a long thread and my posts are also long and maybe boring, but was discussed before.

The output of FL have in all tests less volume. Most of the people perceive loudness as a better sound quality, so, for a short while even more experienced musicians can be like "wow... I knew it was something wrong".
Why not to put a normalizing option then and get rid of at least this problem ?>

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sorohanro wrote:
nucleon wrote:uploading.com says ive reached my daily download limit?
:-o
ok, I put on mediafire:
http://www.mediafire.com/?d501bkwd3irrh
That's the folder, now uploadein wav files as well as projects.
Thanks. Downloading.

Note that I think the FL sampler and MuLabs sampler are set to a different default levels, so is likely why the sax dosnt cancel by default.

Also the verb in Addictive Drums could be causing randomness.

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Edit: Nevermind, found the post where you say what was used.
Last edited by nucleon on Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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If you increase the gain of the FL version by 2.6 dB the sax then cancels btw.

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nucleon wrote:Edit: Nevermind, found the post where you say what was used.
muted trumpet, not sax :D
http://audio.tutsplus.com/freebies/loop ... oops-in-c/

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