BigTick

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:30 pm

If there is such a thing as "synonyms" tags, then the best thing to do is for Zen to apply all tags automatically - e.g if someones tags a preset as "EP", it will also be automatically tagged as "Electric Piano".

ZombyWoof · Post by **ZombyWoof** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:38 pm

How about an opt-in "Like" function for presets with a Like toggle and display of the community Like count on the preset icon. It would be nice to be able to sort by this count. It would be like a community-level favorites function.

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:58 pm

ZombyWoof wrote:How about an opt-in "Like" function for presets with a Like toggle and display of the community Like count on the preset icon. It would be nice to be able to sort by this count. It would be like a community-level favorites function.

Yes this is what I had in mind for a rating system.

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:09 pm

Big Tick wrote:If there is such a thing as "synonyms" tags, then the best thing to do is for Zen to apply all tags automatically - e.g if someones tags a preset as "EP", it will also be automatically tagged as "Electric Piano".

I'm not talking only about synonyms, though terms that are synonymous with one another is part of it. Neither am I talking about manually pre-grouping similar tags.

Rather, once a database of many user tags is built it should be possible to perform statistical analysis to pick out tags which are commonly associated with one another. This information could be used to suggest search terms that might both broaden, or refine a particular search.

For example, a user search for patches tagged Whurlitzer for Plugin X yields no results. Analysis of the tag database shows that patches tagged Whurlitzer are often also tagged EP, Electric Piano, Rhodes, Fender etc. Zen asks the user if they would like to broaden their search using any of these terms.

In the above example the terms are more or less synonymous, but the principle could equally be applied for any tags that are often found tagged to the same patches. For example, it could be that many patches tagged Acid are also tagged 303 - two related, but not synonymous terms.

crimsonwarlock · Post by **crimsonwarlock** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:15 pm

Although I do like most of the suggestion, I also already see some kind of 'FrankenZen' emerging

So I like to add to all this that above all I do like 'simplicity'

So far ZEN sports a rather minimalistic UI, and I think exactly that is needed to make handling many presets and banks for just about any VSTi on the planet totally feasible. So whatever is being put into ZEN, especially don't loose THAT

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:21 pm

I couldn't agree more.

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:46 pm

Okay - I have quite clearly said many times that any suggestions are just that, suggestions, and should be taken as such, but I think get the message...

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:52 pm

Ah, no message really - I'm sure most of the features suggested can be implemented in a way that respects the simplicity of the interface.

crimsonwarlock · Post by **crimsonwarlock** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:01 am

Suggestions help to make Zen better, I have posted several myself. But I also think that for each suggestion there is an easy way and a complex way to do it. For example, the option to search for 'NOT tag-x' is something I would never use because I think tagging should be straight-forward on it's own. Yes, this means using more tags, but also that the tag-system remains one-dimensional.

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:35 am

crimsonwarlock wrote:Suggestions help to make Zen better, I have posted several myself. But I also think that for each suggestion there is an easy way and a complex way to do it. For example, the option to search for 'NOT tag-x' is something I would never use because I think tagging should be straight-forward on it's own. Yes, this means using more tags, but also that the tag-system remains one-dimensional.

I'm not sure that I quite understand your reasoning there. In what way would tagging be more straight-forward? Why would this mean using more tags? Why is this more one dimensional? Are we back to the idea of a fixed list of tags here? Sorry, I'm not being facetious - just trying to work out exactly what you are trying to get at.

The kind of functionality I suggested would not require changes to the UI, or any visible addition of complexity, or force you to change the way that you use Zen. The use of AND, OR and NOT is fairly standard for web based searches, so I wasn't suggesting anything radical, or new.

Unless you're against the whole idea of searching by tag, which is fair enough. Personally I think it would be a very useful addition.

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:46 am

hakey wrote:Why would this mean using more tags?

A perfect example is the "mono" tag. You can search for polyphonic presets by using (NOT MONO). Or you can have a "poly" tag, in which case you don't need the "not" feature - but then you have more tags.

Are we back to the idea of a fixed list of tags here?

No we won't.

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:53 am

Big Tick wrote:
hakey wrote:Why would this mean using more tags?
A perfect example is the "mono" tag. You can search for polyphonic presets by using (NOT MONO). Or you can have a "poly" tag, in which case you don't need the "not" feature - but then you have more tags.

POLY and MONO are mutually exclusive, whereas in a search for say 'Bluegrass NOT Banjo', the two terms are not mutually exclusive.

Of course you could filter by striking out a tag - but only if that tag is amongst your user list.

But, I rather get the sense that my ideas are a perhaps source of irritation - which is entirely understandable

? They were only intended as feedback from an interested user - the kind of features that would make me want to use Zen.

I'll wait and see what you come up with and, if it's not for me, well so be it.

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:15 am

But, I rather get the sense that my ideas are a perhaps source of irritation

Absolutely not, and I apologize if I ever gave this impression. Please keep'em coming !

crimsonwarlock · Post by **crimsonwarlock** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:14 pm

Big Tick wrote:
But, I rather get the sense that my ideas are a perhaps source of irritation
Absolutely not, and I apologize if I ever gave this impression. Please keep'em coming !

I like to add to this that I'm totally with Tick's intentions; suggestions are important to get Zen developed further, however we should keep in mind that not every suggestion SHOULD be implemented, but just could be implemented. I'm all for developing any concept into something incredible, but I'm also against putting in 'everything and the kitchen sink' for the sake of some misguided idea of completeness, for even worse; just because we can.

However, knowing Tick's work for close to a decade now (I think) I'm pretty confident we can trust him with this

crimsonwarlock · Post by **crimsonwarlock** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:17 pm

hakey wrote:But, I rather get the sense that my ideas are a perhaps source of irritation

I just want to add that I never intended to give you that idea

BigTick

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