EEG Strawberry Update in the Works (RELEASED!)

[gbevin]

I'm still entering the chord definitions for chord variations 2 and 3, but here's the beta rhythm guitar patch if any of you want to try it out:

http://www.orangetreesamples.com/download/EEGRhythm.rar

Just put it in the same folder as the other rhythm guitar patches. In the final update release, those old rhythm guitar patches will be in a "Legacy" folder.

Hi Greg,

Thanks a lot for this beta, it looks really promising. The main thing I'm lacking though is the ability to play single strings of a chord in between regular up and down strokes. Maybe it's something that I haven't found yet though.

I'm also wondering if it might be possible to have another way of strumming. In the beta you basically press a key to strum and optionally have the velocity control the speed and the maximum number of strings. Different keys can then use different articulations or fine-tune other strum parameters if wanted.

I sort of intuitively want to do this differently, maybe it's just not possible to easily implement since it's like another product, but I'll give it a go anyway. Instead of controlling the strum with one key, I'd still like the articulation to be controlled by that but to have the actual up and down strokes, and the selection of the number of string be done by playing the notes in the chord differently. For instance, if you play them upwards, you get an upstroke, if you play it faster the sounds just sound quicker in succession. You can't really rely on chord definitions anymore of course, since you don't know from the beginning which chords you're strumming.

While writing this, it occurs to me that you could actually have a 'free form' articulation that could allow for any kind of note to be played as you play the chord. When you're building it up, it selects the chord definitions progressively when more notes are held down simultaneously. Additionally, you can have a 'previous chord free form' articulation that sort of 'remembers' the chord you were just playing before but allows you to arpeggiate over it.

What do you think? Am I making any sense?

Thanks,

Geert

[Gregjazz]

Thanks a lot for this beta, it looks really promising. The main thing I'm lacking though is the ability to play single strings of a chord in between regular up and down strokes. Maybe it's something that I haven't found yet though.

Awesome, you can do that with the strum palette. Set the starting string to the string you want, and then just set the total strings to strum to 1.

I'm also wondering if it might be possible to have another way of strumming. In the beta you basically press a key to strum and optionally have the velocity control the speed and the maximum number of strings. Different keys can then use different articulations or fine-tune other strum parameters if wanted.

I sort of intuitively want to do this differently, maybe it's just not possible to easily implement since it's like another product, but I'll give it a go anyway. Instead of controlling the strum with one key, I'd still like the articulation to be controlled by that but to have the actual up and down strokes, and the selection of the number of string be done by playing the notes in the chord differently. For instance, if you play them upwards, you get an upstroke, if you play it faster the sounds just sound quicker in succession. You can't really rely on chord definitions anymore of course, since you don't know from the beginning which chords you're strumming.

Yeah, that's the tricky part about chord detection and any sort of "simultaneous" (but not quite) note handling, is that they aren't really played at the same time, and there's no way to anticipate what you'll play in the future. You can, however, have a threshold, but that wouldn't work for slower strums at all, since it'd have to wait longer until all the notes in the chord are known.

[Takk]

The main thing I'm lacking though is the ability to play single strings of a chord in between regular up and down strokes. Maybe it's something that I haven't found yet though.

What I've done is set up single string strum keys along with my chord strum keys - e.g.
C = palm mute down (strings = lowest & highest);
C# = sustain down (strings = lowest & highest);
D = palm mute up (strings = lowest & highest);
D# = sustain up (strings = lowest & highest);
E = full mute down (strings = lowest & highest);
F = sustain down (string = low E);
F# = sustain down (string = A);
G = sustain down (string = D);
G# = sustain down (string = G);
A = sustain down (string = B);
A# = sustain down (string = high E);

That's working just fine and dandy for me and allows for the playing of single strings, arpeggiating, or hitting full on chord (and variations of all three) easily.

I'm also wondering if it might be possible to have another way of strumming...

I sort of intuitively want to do this differently, maybe it's just not possible to easily implement since it's like another product, but I'll give it a go anyway. Instead of controlling the strum with one key, I'd still like the articulation to be controlled by that but to have the actual up and down strokes, and the selection of the number of string be done by playing the notes in the chord differently. For instance, if you play them upwards, you get an upstroke, if you play it faster the sounds just sound quicker in succession. You can't really rely on chord definitions anymore of course, since you don't know from the beginning which chords you're strumming.

While writing this, it occurs to me that you could actually have a 'free form' articulation that could allow for any kind of note to be played as you play the chord. When you're building it up, it selects the chord definitions progressively when more notes are held down simultaneously. Additionally, you can have a 'previous chord free form' articulation that sort of 'remembers' the chord you were just playing before but allows you to arpeggiate over it.

What do you think? Am I making any sense?

Thanks,

Geert

Not wishing to poo-poo your idea, Geert, but personally I'm finding the current "new" way of working just perfect as it is (it is very similar to the way AAS's Strum Electric is played, so has been really easy to pick up for me - in fact my strum keys are pretty much identicle to the way they are mapped in Strum Electric).

Regards
Takk

[eDrummist]

Yep. The Musiclab products are extremely playable and use only little disc space. When applying distortion they work well in a production. However, the sounds are not as good as Evolution Guitar.
I'm really looking forward to the acoustic addon as the sounds of Real Guitar are outdated, yet it is the best acoustic guitar you can get at the moment.

If you are interested in the way it sounds you can checkout my myspace site. I did all of my songs with Musiclab products. But with Evolution Guitar this will probably change...

http://www.myspace.com/talvinjones

Hey, Talvin, kudos!

I just checked out your songs and I have to say, very nice!

From the songwriting, to the performance, to the arrangement, to the production and mixes -- that's really good work! If that was all done with MusicLab products for the guitars, you have mixed things so tastefully I couldn't really tell, I was just enjoying the songs ("Dogs to Fly" and "Honesty" are standouts so far, IMO) and your voice works extremely well in the songs.

[dynamitec]

Thanks for the reply. Thats pretty much the vibe i was getting. I assume the Vir2 Electri6ity is up there with evolution but that is also way over my budget. I was tempted by Chris Hein but have heard that the quality of the samples is a bit dated also.

I think waiting for Evolution Acoustic is my best bet. I already own EEG.

I think Electri6ity sounds a little better than RealLPC, but it's definitely not at the same level of realism as Evolution. Listen to the demos without all the distortion.

However, one thing I do love about Electri6ity is the guitars they selected. I would love it if Orange Tree Samples/Greg could sample those same guitar models with Evolution-level quality. That would be sampled guitar Heaven for me.

Hi Peter,
with all due respect, but Electri6ity *doesn't* only sound *a little* bit better than the MusicLab products Those are definitely two different beasts of libraries - not to mention that Electri6ity has this big selection of guitars and already includes most of the new stuff going the the EEG update (e.g. chord detection, strum palette, repeat last chord,etc...). Please check out the demos Funk O' Town, Somewhere and Autumn on the Vir2 homepage or the demos from progtronic in the KVR Electri6ity thread and compare them to any MusicLab demo out there.

All this doesn't meant that I don't admire Greg for the incredible demos he is doing with EEG and the work he puts into his library

[eDrummist]

Thanks for the reply. Thats pretty much the vibe i was getting. I assume the Vir2 Electri6ity is up there with evolution but that is also way over my budget. I was tempted by Chris Hein but have heard that the quality of the samples is a bit dated also.

I think waiting for Evolution Acoustic is my best bet. I already own EEG.

I think Electri6ity sounds a little better than RealLPC, but it's definitely not at the same level of realism as Evolution. Listen to the demos without all the distortion.

However, one thing I do love about Electri6ity is the guitars they selected. I would love it if Orange Tree Samples/Greg could sample those same guitar models with Evolution-level quality. That would be sampled guitar Heaven for me.

Hi Peter,
with all due respect, but Electri6ity *doesn't* only sound *a little* bit better than the MusicLab products Those are definitely two different beasts of libraries - not to mention that Electri6ity has this big selection of guitars and already includes most of the new stuff going the the EEG update (e.g. chord detection, strum palette, repeat last chord,etc...). Please check out the demos Funk O' Town, Somewhere and Autumn on the Vir2 homepage or the demos from progtronic in the KVR Electri6ity thread and compare them to any MusicLab demo out there.

All this doesn't meant that I don't admire Greg for the incredible demos he is doing with EEG and the work he puts into his library

Hi Ben,

My gosh, it's like you have some kind of radar whenever I mention Electri6ity!

I suppose you're right -- my saying a "little better" is a bit of an understatement. I'll give you that. In fact, Electri6ity does sound significantly better than RealStrat (but I think RealLPC sounds a lot better than RealStrat, hence when I said "a little better") and better than RealLPC. In fact, if Evolution did not come on the market, I would certainly have picked up Electri6ity.

- Peter

[dynamitec]

My gosh, it's like you have some kind of radar whenever I mention Electri6ity!

Well, it might be the fact that we both are interested in the same topics - beeing both drummers and interested in good virtual guitar libraries -
so it's quite naturally we meet from time to time in some of this threads

But now back on topic...

[c0pasetik]

Electri6ity fell short of my expectations too. When you distort patches is as good as most plugins, but when you need something softer for jazz say, but with more detail than the average plugin, you can't beat Orange tree. Just can't wait till Greg makes that Jazzy stuff even better.

[Godseyse]

I can't wait 'til Greg makes somthing truely meant for metal. =P

If he does. I'm content with what I have. ^-^

[gbevin]

Thanks a lot for this beta, it looks really promising. The main thing I'm lacking though is the ability to play single strings of a chord in between regular up and down strokes. Maybe it's something that I haven't found yet though.

Awesome, you can do that with the strum palette. Set the starting string to the string you want, and then just set the total strings to strum to 1.

Wow, thanks a lot Greg, this works out wonderfully! On the Eigenharp Alpha I mapped the percussion keys to individual strings and now I can strum for real with my right hand by brushing over them while playing chords with my left hand. I'm blown away, this has so much potential.

This brings me to another request though, could it be possible to provide an AU automation parameter for articulation selections? This would allow me to for instance map the continuous key pressure of the Eigenharp to it and then for example play palm mutes by simply pressing down without less force while keeping the same chord. That would feel extremely natural I think. Similarly, having an AU automation parameter for the chord variations would be very handy too, I'd be able to control them with the breath controller then while playing with both hands.

What do you think, are these requests reasonable?

Thanks,

Geert

[Gregjazz]

This brings me to another request though, could it be possible to provide an AU automation parameter for articulation selections? This would allow me to for instance map the continuous key pressure of the Eigenharp to it and then for example play palm mutes by simply pressing down without less force while keeping the same chord. That would feel extremely natural I think. Similarly, having an AU automation parameter for the chord variations would be very handy too, I'd be able to control them with the breath controller then while playing with both hands.

Hmmm, interesting idea. I need to figure out exactly how that would work, and I'll get back to you.

I'm not sure if everybody saw this, but Gbevin posted this video on the Orange Tree Samples Facebook page:

I'm really impressed by how expressive the instrument is (of course, skill and talent are responsible for this too)!! Check out the solo he plays using Evolution Electric Guitar in the song also.

[Gregjazz]

I can't wait 'til Greg makes somthing truely meant for metal. =P

If he does. I'm content with what I have. ^-^

Actually that's something I'm considering. For the lead guitar, it would have a lot of the articulations automated, like slide drops and different slide attacks, not to mention tapping trills and stuff. Also, the rhythm guitar section would be sampled with powerchords in mind.

[gbevin]

Hmmm, interesting idea. I need to figure out exactly how that would work, and I'll get back to you.

It seems that if the articulation selection would be a rotary knob, I'd be able to map it to an AU host automation parameter myself. That doesn't seem to work on drop down menus though. So in theory this might be a very easy thing to implement. If you want I can give some possible approaches a go to see if it works well.

I'm not sure if everybody saw this, but Gbevin posted this video on the Orange Tree Samples Facebook page:

I'm really impressed by how expressive the instrument is (of course, skill and talent are responsible for this too)!! Check out the solo he plays using Evolution Electric Guitar in the song also.

Thanks Greg! I have some ideas about a couple of videos I'm going to do on the Eigenharp Alpha using EEG Strawberry to show how expressive both can be together. All the nuances in EEG really come to life with the detail of the Eigenharp. I think that might be better than a written review (given someone already wrote one). What do you think?

[folkeman]

I've played around with the rhythm update for a few minutes only, so I haven't explored it fully yet, but something struck me: it might be useful to assign a key for "Rest", i.e. a key that is used to silence the previous chord. This is one of the options in the original strum engine. The only way to do it now seems to be to let go of the keys that are playing the chord, which isn't so intuitive and interrupts the flow when playing a pattern. Pressing a key to silence the chord seems more natural to me.

Similarly, didn't the strum engine have a "string release" option -- the sound you get when you stop the chord by removing the hand from the fretboard (and the open strings ring out)? (I'm not a guitar player and don't know the right terminology.) How is this created with the palette system?

Thanks

[Takk]

Hi Greg

I was just wondering if there was any way of implementing a fretted hand mute in the rhythm engine - maybe controled by the velocity of the root note of the chord hand (i.e. the softer the chord is "fretted", the greater the mute - just like if you fret a chord lightly on a real guitar), so the fully sustained (or palm muted) chord (depending on which articulation you play in the strum palette) would only play if you fingered the chord with full velocity (or above a pre-determined, or configurable, amount), else a muted (with differing degrees of "muteness" depending on the velocity of the root note) would be played instead.

To that end - for ultra realism - for really softly fingered chords on, say, where the note on the neck would compute to the fifth fretted position on the string, a harmonic would then play (and so forth at other harmonic points on the neck).

To be honest, I have no idea how intuitive that would be to play, but it was just an idea that struck me while I was jamming last night. It could maybe be controlled by a dial whereby you could set a percentage indicator as to how much you want the fretting chord hand to influence this - with 100% being fully, to zero% being switched off completely.

Just an idea. Sound feasible? Or useful?

Anyways, thanks for what we've got already.
Regards
Takk