understanding popular harmonic prog.

[djfood]

LO!
I just pick out the sheet from Owl City the song fireflies. the song is in the key of B major...
The chord progression is :
B - E - A - F#m

i don't understand why they use A because it's not in the key of B.
What's the rule behind this ???

Thanx
yaz from france

[Ogg Vorbis]

LO!
I just pick out the sheet from Owl City the song fireflies. the song is in the key of B major...
The chord progression is :
B - E - A - F#m

i don't understand why they use A because it's not in the key of B.
What's the rule behind this ???

Thanx
yaz from france

1) Maybe it's not in B. Maybe it's in E. How do you know it's in B?
2) Maybe it is in B...but "B something". Pop/Rock is only infrequently in the happy and sunny traditional major key with a V7 resolving to a I. In fact, I-IV-V-I often sounds very "Brady Bunch". Your song could be emphasizing B Mixo.
3) "Rules." There's that word again. There really aren't any rules. You won't have to pay a fine if you go to the "wrong" chord.
4) Hark! You said, "Lo!" Verily I say, 'tis a most glorious word. Ma foi!

[djfood]

there's 5 sharp at the signature.

[Ogg Vorbis]

there's 5 sharp at the signature.

Ah, cool. I just checked Ewe-Tube and the recording is in Bb, but whatever...it helps me to understand what's going on.

So yes, you've got a key of B stated in the signature, but the chords and tune do not follow conventional Major mode. I would call it B Mixolydian if I really had to qualify things at gunpoint. In spite of the A# in the signature, there are probably more A naturals than A sharps by about 20:1.

You just can't take keys as strictly in major or minor in pop/rock because so much of it can be modal.

[Sendy]

there's 5 sharp at the signature.

Ah, cool. I just checked Ewe-Tube and the recording is in Bb, but whatever...it helps me to understand what's going on.

So yes, you've got a key of B stated in the signature, but the chords and tune do not follow conventional Major mode. I would call it B Mixolydian if I really had to qualify things at gunpoint. In spite of the A# in the signature, there are probably more A naturals than A sharps by about 20:1.

You just can't take keys as strictly in major or minor in pop/rock because so much of it can be modal.

Wasn't it bands like the Beatles that took pop away from 'functional harmony' and more towards a tonality that can borrow from many different keys and modes in a fluid manner?

[someone called simon]

all sorts of folk music has those kinds of harmonies for ages, the beatles didnt invent it, or popularise to any extent AKAIK.

Music has always come from the sound, and the theory is a way of understanding it. The main rules of what intervals make up a major key or whatever are based on what is most common, the departure you're talking about is perhaps the second most common.... but anything is allowable if it sounds the way the composer intended.

[KingofBeers]

Haven't heard the song, but the easiest way to explain it is that although the key sig is Bmaj its starting/borrowing from Emajor. B major is a common chord from both keys (I in B V in E) and acts as a pivot chord. You can get to chords from B major and Emajor from this.

Another type of example B maj - F# maj - E maj - A maj - D maj

A and D major are not in B major, but in A major they are. E chord is present in both and acts as a pivot. (basically its modulating to a new key - but it might not stay there so its just borrowing chords temporarily)

Never worry about the theory - if it sound right then its right. There will always be a complicated way to explain it "theoretically", but most of the time the person who writes the stuff goes on instinct.


Cheers.

[djfood]

i don't know if you have the right thinking guyz...
finally i think this trick is related to a common techniques who can be describe as "flipping tonality". In fact when you r in the key of B major the ear and the listeners can accept the chords of B minor ...
it's common i read in a book... C major key can be play with chords coming from C minor at certain occasions....


hey !!!
im da man!!!!!!
isnt this right??
i luv my self

[tapper mike]

Nah,

There are several roads you can go here.
key modulation. Key modulation can occur anywhere sny time and it doesn't have to sequence in a chain like jazzy ii-V-I cycles

As well as harmonic justification. Harmonic justification is basically make the chord fit the melody.

As for the beatles,,,, I love 'em but they were hardly the first. Gospel and Classic R&B groups were using I-VII in progressions back the 40's and 50's.
A classic rock example would be "Sunshine Of Your Love" by Eric Clapton
D-D-C-D
D-D-C-D
G-G-F-G

A-A-C-G
A-A-C-G
A-A-C-G

The Chord progression is done by taking each note of the D Minor Pentatonic scale making it the root of the chord and applying major chords to them.

[cmaxx]

I had to chime in.
Fireflies is in Eb major, regardless of what some "sheet music" sites may say...just listen to it!
The song is very tonic, despite sounding slightly modal with the intro synth melodies.
The only thing "modal" is when it goes to the Major II chord (Fmajor) at the end of the chorus. This would be a temporary lydian change with and A natural raising the Ab, representing a raised 4th scale degree in the key of Eb.
Verse: V-I-IV-IV
Chorus: IV- I- V- V- IV- I- iii- IV-
IV- I- IV V- vi- IV- I- *II

[Andrea7]

I had to chime in.
Fireflies is in Eb major, regardless of what some "sheet music" sites may say...just listen to it!
The song is very tonic, despite sounding slightly modal with the intro synth melodies.
The only thing "modal" is when it goes to the Major II chord (Fmajor) at the end of the chorus. This would be a temporary lydian change with and A natural raising the Ab, representing a raised 4th scale degree in the key of Eb.
Verse: V-I-IV-IV
Chorus: IV- I- V- V- IV- I- iii- IV-
IV- I- IV V- vi- IV- I- *II

Totally agree with you!

First listen, to find out what is the "central" note, the note you want to return back to.
Looking at the key signature, and the first/ last chords- that works only in classical music.
You can even find a song in C, without any "I" ( C chord)
And, of course, a lot of different scales are possible

[Farnaby]

You can even find a song in C, without any "I" ( C chord)

That would be quite a challenge. Can you quote an example? It is possible that the song isn't actually in C - that might just be your assumption.

[Andrea7]

You can even find a song in C, without any "I" ( C chord)

That would be quite a challenge. Can you quote an example? It is possible that the song isn't actually in C - that might just be your assumption.

I don't have an example in mind.
So I've just googled "songs without tonic chord", and there you can find some.
For people who have a classical background (like me ) that seems very surprising, tonality and scales have a different meaning now.
Scales have also a very different relationship with the chords than in classical music.

[NAD]

I had to chime in.
Fireflies is in Eb major, regardless of what some "sheet music" sites may say...just listen to it!
The song is very tonic, despite sounding slightly modal with the intro synth melodies.
The only thing "modal" is when it goes to the Major II chord (Fmajor) at the end of the chorus. This would be a temporary lydian change with and A natural raising the Ab, representing a raised 4th scale degree in the key of Eb.
Verse: V-I-IV-IV
Chorus: IV- I- V- V- IV- I- iii- IV-
IV- I- IV V- vi- IV- I- *II

Listen to this guy and ignore the rest. They're just over-complicating it. This guy (or gal) has it spot on.

[NAD]

You can even find a song in C, without any "I" ( C chord)

That would be quite a challenge. Can you quote an example? It is possible that the song isn't actually in C - that might just be your assumption.

There's a chord progression which is a apparently extremely popular in Japanese music: IV V iii vi. In C major that would be F G Em Am. Of course it's also possible to hear the 6 as the tonic.