oh nOeS!

[blaster78]

the "100% free of supersaw" does sound like a political statement rather than a technical one....

im starting to wonder if the word 'political' even vaguely means the same thing as it used to...

political
- 3 dictionary results
po·lit·i·cal
   /pəˈlɪtɪkəl/ Show Spelled[puh-lit-i-kuhl] Show IPA
-adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or concerned with politics: political writers.
2.
of, pertaining to, or connected with a political party: a political campaign.
3.
exercising or seeking power in the governmental or public affairs of a state, municipality, etc.: a political machine; a political boss.
4.
of, pertaining to, or involving the state or its government: a political offense.
5.
having a definite policy or system of government: a political community.
6.
of or pertaining to citizens: political rights.

seriously... '100% supersaw free' is a vaguely tongue-in-cheek pseudo-marketing style comment. wtf is 'political' about it ffs?

anyone know which synth has teh least political sine waveforms with teh most socio-economic harmonics?

oh, come on shaun. in a world where political correctness has become such a big part of the way society operates. in the kvr world "100% free of supersaw" has a kvr-pc element surely ? and therefore the term political statement is not so far removed from the truth.

even if it doesn't fit the dictionary definition.

[whyterabbyt]

oh, come on shaun. in a world where political correctness has become such a big part of the way society operates in the kvr world "100% free of supersaw" has a kvr-pc element surely ? and therefore the term political statement is not so far removed from the truth.

is this the start of a sad new trend, then?

five best neo-marxist delay lines?

wot is best 303 for Tea Party campaign song?

Does Fruityloops has worst record on human rights reform?

Deadmau5 sucks, should be sued by PETA.

[blaster78]

oh, come on shaun. in a world where political correctness has become such a big part of the way society operates in the kvr world "100% free of supersaw" has a kvr-pc element surely ? and therefore the term political statement is not so far removed from the truth.

is this the start of a sad new trend, then?

five best neo-marxist delay lines?

wot is best 303 for Tea Party campaign song?

Does Fruityloops has worst record on human rights reform?

Deadmau5 sucks, should be sued by PETA.

ron paul and the current "tea party beau" senorita palin have already made it perfectly clear that for teh best 303 you need the real thing (preferably with devilfish mods)

i'm pretty sure soundtoys have the best neo marxist delay line but ricochet and dubstation can also be good depending on chris and adams mood.

fruity loops summing engine is most definately a human rights violations... many tarnce producers say so.

and all dead mouses are good mouses, especially when they usually eat and crap in your cornflakes regardless of a bunch of semi naked models.



steve.

[olikana]

Well, in my understanding Supersaw still refers to a stack of sawtooth oscillators, while unison refers to a stack of whole synthesizer voices (with oscillators, envelopes, amplifiers, filters etc.).

Afaiaa most (if not all) synthesizers that are famous for their Supersaw sound use stacked oscillators rather than stacked voices. The exception being various analogue Roland synths of 1980ies which made that kind of sound popular with their unison presets, e.g. the infamous "Hoover" sound (which actually was a stack of PWM sounds, not sawtooths).

As for the "politicality" statement - yes, we can't deny that we think that Supersaw is inferior to unison. Actually, we find that many synths that are promoted with the Supersaw buzzword are only done so to distract from the weakness of whatever their sound is like when the Supersaw feature is turned off. It occurrs to us that promoting Supersaw equals "otherwise bad sound". And that's why we explicitely market it as "100% free of Supersaw".

urs
stacking unison voices (yes voices!!the whole patch) and detuning has been the most common way of making "supersaws" in the past 10 years....and whether u like it or not even if made that way they've been called supersaws.
ACE does not break any mould on this.
"100% free of supersaws"....is beyond confusing.
the OP obviously didn't get what u meant....and i bet not many will.
also cos on the spec page Unison is not listed....so it does appear like u r saying your synth does not do supersaws ....when infact it does...and in the most common way (although u believe it's not)

http://www.acesynth.com/index.php?item=specs

100% free of Supersaw. Instead it has:

exceptional sync /w FM (VCO1->VCO2, think Crossmodulation)
LFOs that can be used as additional VCOs an vice versa
exceptional filter sound including convincing self oscillation

u forgot to add : it has unison up to X voices with detune/spread

but then the "100% free of supersaw" would have made no sense at all


when u gonna release a synth "100% free of bell or brass or flute " ?


anyway the OP misinterpreted your slogan...this thread should be locked imo.

[fandango]

I'm saving for this:

f**king hell. If i saw that in real life i'd shit bricks and cry

Looks like something off Killzone 2

Close!

STALKER: Call of Pripyat.

[DavenH]

I'm saving for this:

f**king hell. If i saw that in real life i'd shit bricks and cry

Looks like something off Killzone 2

Close!

STALKER: Call of Pripyat.

Also made it into UT3...

[ariston]

...ACE does not break any mould on this....

do you mean this



or this?

[trimph1]

OK--break out----"The Phenomenauts"

[Urs]

stacking unison voices (yes voices!!the whole patch) and detuning has been the most common way of making "supersaws" in the past 10 years...

I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Stacked oscillators in the JP8000 have coined the term "Supersaw". It was a cheap way to achieve an unison-like sound. Unison sounds have however never been called "Supersaw", unless for marketing reasons when catering for the popularity of the Supersaw feature.

There are many synths that do not offer Supersaw oscillators, and the ones in the Korg Legacy collection you mentioned belong to this. These are however not renowned for their Supersaw, but for their quality as analogue emulations (including the ability to stack voices to achieve an unison sound).

To the contrary, most synths that are renouned for their Supersaw sound offer just that: Stacked oscillators. The fact that Supersaw is all too often confused with unison shows just how popular this feature is. It's used in marketing all over the place, praised as a factor for good quality - when in fact it's just a cheap way to save resources, and a feature that rather degrades sound quality compared to unison than lifting it.

So yes, the term "100% free of Supersaw" is a pisstake on those people who fall for marketing slogans and who thus think that stacked oscillators are the ultimate quality criteria for synthesizers. They are not.

[VSTJuNkiE]

I was thinking "only a dick would drive a van like that..."

[trimph1]

@ VSTjunkie: I'd really like to know who does these things---they must be something else

[nollock]

stacking unison voices (yes voices!!the whole patch) and detuning has been the most common way of making "supersaws" in the past 10 years....and whether u like it or not even if made that way they've been called supersaws.
ACE does not break any mould on this.

I think you're confusing unison and supersaw. While you will find a lot synths that have a unison feature which is used to make that fat trance unsion sound, it is not specificaly supersaw not is it marketed as such.

Supersaw is a bunch of stacked sawtooth oscillators, and you'll find that is what the term is used to mean in the vast majority if not all cases. Excepting those cases where it just means a bunch of stacked oscillators, not sawtooths specificaly.

[olikana]

I think you're confusing unison and supersaw. While you will find a lot synths that have a unison feature which is used to make that fat trance unsion sound, it is not specificaly supersaw not is it marketed as such.

Supersaw is a bunch of stacked sawtooth oscillators, and you'll find that is what the term is used to mean in the vast majority if not all cases. Excepting those cases where it just means a bunch of stacked oscillators, not sawtooths specificaly.

no i'm not. and don't need u to tell me that supersaw is stacked saws. doh!
if u cared to read my previous posts and not just comment on an excerpt quote u would find i know that without u tellin me thank u.
many ppl here on kvr are either trolling or don't really read what other people say or just quote things out of context and nickpicket on them for the sake of argument. i find it's rather rude and disrespectful.

i think the discussion here has turned into a supersaw oscillator vs supersaw sound. if u want the supersaw oscillator specifically the only option is the jp8000 (it is the only synth who can claim to have it for name patenting reasons) ....but if u want a supersaw sound u can achieve it any number of ways (even the modular way if u wished)....and unison/detune being by far the most popular way of making that sound since the late 90s (and if u was around kvr these last 10 years u would know this).

i have to repeat myself here, i never said unison is a supersaw (unison can be used for a moltitutde of sounds:choirs, bells etc) ....but i said unison can be used to make a "supersaw". .cos u can stack saws that way ...and although u r technically stacking voices...that includes the oscillators too:) (and 16 envelopes with same setting won't affect the sound much differently from using 1 evelope with the same setting )

in any synth with unison :select one or two saw oscillators..open filter..open sustain...unison x16...detune at pleasure....and u have a basic supersaw sound. (if u wanna be more faithful to the roland supersaw waveform select 7 voices)
whether u like it or not in the music industry that kind of sound is called a "supersaw" and not "fat trance unison sound" (u can verify this by just reading supersaw threads on kvr from the past 10 years. a quick search: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=199859 and why in that thread URS has nothing to object to those being called supersaws? 90% the synths in that thread are achieving supersaws through unison/detune ).

if a dj comes to your studio and asks u "i want a unison sound (as URS calls it) or a fat trance unison sound (as u call it)" u'd be at loss to know what he means (your terms could be anything from a pad sound to a bass sound)...but if he asks u for a "supersaw" u'd know exactly what kind of sound he wants...and the first thing u'd be doing if u have any common sense is stacking saws in unison and detuning at pleasure .

since roland introduced the term "superwave" for its 7 saw stack waveform in the jp8000(and only roland can claim to have a supersaw oscillator as it's patented) the hyped term caught on among musicians and in the last decade it has been used to describe that sound of detuned stacked saws and which has been all over trance music productions (especially for leads )....and funny enough many of the synths used in those productions did not even have any sort of supersaw oscillator (the waldorfq, supernova,virusC etc all did their "supersaw" leads with unison/detune ...).and in VSTi form in the 2000s was just the same...for example with Vanguard (unison/detune) and the korg legacy (unison/detune...and whatever URS say it still found its way in trance production for supersaw sounds) ...then 5 years ago i lost interest in trance and a supersaw sound gives me nausea anyway so i haven't followed developments since then.

by using unison u r indeed stacking oscillators (and everything else alongside)...so if u are stacking saw oscillators through unison and detuning them u can only expect to achieve similar results to the roland superwave waveform concept (7 saws stacked and detuned), and beyond.
if the jp8000 had unison from the start(which was later added into the 8080) i doubt roland would have bothered to develop a supersaw waveform at all....but global unison/ detune is a big resource hog , especially for dsp chips...and modern 16-32 voice unison supersaws might not be sutainable on a dsp chip (that's why i guess the virus now developed the hypersaw ).


to conclude ACE "100% supersaw oscillator free" (written this way it would have been less controversial)but at the end of the day ACE is still suitable for making supersaw sounds as it has unison/detune hidden somewhere (although the unison feature is not mentioned at all in the ACE specs which is a bit odd...almost as he wanna make sure no trance kid gets near his product )

ps: i wrote all this in 10 minutes and english is not my first language ...so sorry if it's a pain to read ....i think i wasted enough time on someone who didnt even take time to read previous posts before formulating his opinions.

[Urs]

a quick search: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=199859 and why in that thread URS has nothing to object to those being called supersaws? 90% the synths in that thread are achieving supersaws through unison/detune ).

Wrong. 12 out of 16 examples use stacked oscillators. The others I don't know, but at least two of them have 6 oscillators per voice anyway, so it's difficult to say...

That's... a maximum of 25%, not 90%.

The term "Supersaw" is btw. neither a trademark in US nor in EU.

[Urs]

(although the unison feature is not mentioned at all in the ACE specs which is a bit odd...almost as he wanna make sure no trance kid gets near his product )

Yes and no. The reason it isn't meantioned in the first place is the enormous cpu consumption of ACE. I don't want anybody to buy ACE because of its unison feature before trying the demo version.

However, anybody who gives the following screenshot a closer look can deduct that it's got up to 8-voice unison, and that each voice can be tuned individually (up to +/- 24 semitones, which can't be seen):

http://www.acesynth.com/images/ACE_tweak.jpg

There you have it.

And I stick to my definition: Supersaws are created by stacked oscillators to achieve a unison-like sound. Using unison to achieve a supersaw-like sound is IMHO wrong way round.