i liked that MOK19 said to upload a track into a DAW and then try to make the same beat.. I was thinking aout that long time ago but now you have remind me that so thanx for that
How to create cool percussion?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 128 posts since 7 May, 2009
thanx a lot!
i liked that MOK19 said to upload a track into a DAW and then try to make the same beat.. I was thinking aout that long time ago but now you have remind me that so thanx for that
i liked that MOK19 said to upload a track into a DAW and then try to make the same beat.. I was thinking aout that long time ago but now you have remind me that so thanx for that
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- KVRist
- 33 posts since 6 Mar, 2010
Really like this thread people, any other tips on things like syncopation and creating percussion with other richer sounds aswell? Any good sites out there?
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- KVRer
- 7 posts since 26 Oct, 2010
Bonteburg : TQ for share the tips bro...
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- Hun #3
- 4265 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from A quaint little village just south of Hamburg, Germany
heh! I was just gonig to reply to this and now you're telling me I have done so already.
Appreciation appreciated
Yeah, that's a cool technique!
Another good approach is to surprise yourself.
Play something on a synth, load a single bongo in a sampler to play across all octaves, then let the synth MIDI play the bongo, that kind of stuff.
You'll be getting into your own mind by way of the back door and come up with cool stuff.
Appreciation appreciated
Yeah, that's a cool technique!
Another good approach is to surprise yourself.
Play something on a synth, load a single bongo in a sampler to play across all octaves, then let the synth MIDI play the bongo, that kind of stuff.
You'll be getting into your own mind by way of the back door and come up with cool stuff.
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- KVRist
- 70 posts since 12 Oct, 2010
I didn't read all the posts so please excuse me if my post is redundant.
The best option I can offer (after reading your reply to the first reply) is to get some loops from a loop pack company (or wherever you might find them) and put those over your drum tracks. You may love one so much you keep it in there, that is fine, most of the big name producers do that anyway and tell people that all the time. Just watch Future Music's videos (when they are in someone's studio while they are working on a track) , nearly every single one of them uses percussion and/or synth perc loops, even the really played out and overused ones from things like Stylus RMX.
Anyways, back to my point.. put that over your drums and look at the waveform. Between listening to the percussion being played over your drum part and seeing the waveform (zoom in to really see where the transients are and turn on a grid if your DAW has one) and just figure it out. Its really simple when you look at it mathematically. Now, hopefully, you have some sort of built-in/internal rhythm, because you are producing music, I assume this because I think most people realize they may be musically talented when they see themselves head-nodding on beat vs. everyone around them doing it off-beat. So, if you have that, between the mathematical/grid understanding of 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, and the subdivisions between those and the actual feeling of the rhythm, the effect of the syncopation, etc. you should be able to grasp it pretty well.
I was lucky enough to have played in grade school thru high school symphonic orchestra and so I understand it from a musical/written perspective, but even more so I feel it. Of course, when I started doing electronic music, I began to rely on the grids of a piano roll because its just that much easier. I can program in a part without hearing it and get (or close to) what I'm hoping to achieve. Then if it feels right, I move on. So, I think you should be fine and in due time you will be laughing at yourself because now you have even harder and more important hills to climb in your production techniques!!! That is the way it has been for me anyways.
Hope That Helps,
Freq Status
soundcloud.com/Freq-Status <--- I just put up a VERY "Prog House" tune, if you want to check it out and the percussion in it.. the perc builds throughout the whole track..
@FreqStatus
facebook.com/FreqStatus
The best option I can offer (after reading your reply to the first reply) is to get some loops from a loop pack company (or wherever you might find them) and put those over your drum tracks. You may love one so much you keep it in there, that is fine, most of the big name producers do that anyway and tell people that all the time. Just watch Future Music's videos (when they are in someone's studio while they are working on a track) , nearly every single one of them uses percussion and/or synth perc loops, even the really played out and overused ones from things like Stylus RMX.
Anyways, back to my point.. put that over your drums and look at the waveform. Between listening to the percussion being played over your drum part and seeing the waveform (zoom in to really see where the transients are and turn on a grid if your DAW has one) and just figure it out. Its really simple when you look at it mathematically. Now, hopefully, you have some sort of built-in/internal rhythm, because you are producing music, I assume this because I think most people realize they may be musically talented when they see themselves head-nodding on beat vs. everyone around them doing it off-beat. So, if you have that, between the mathematical/grid understanding of 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, and the subdivisions between those and the actual feeling of the rhythm, the effect of the syncopation, etc. you should be able to grasp it pretty well.
I was lucky enough to have played in grade school thru high school symphonic orchestra and so I understand it from a musical/written perspective, but even more so I feel it. Of course, when I started doing electronic music, I began to rely on the grids of a piano roll because its just that much easier. I can program in a part without hearing it and get (or close to) what I'm hoping to achieve. Then if it feels right, I move on. So, I think you should be fine and in due time you will be laughing at yourself because now you have even harder and more important hills to climb in your production techniques!!! That is the way it has been for me anyways.
Hope That Helps,
Freq Status
soundcloud.com/Freq-Status <--- I just put up a VERY "Prog House" tune, if you want to check it out and the percussion in it.. the perc builds throughout the whole track..
@FreqStatus
facebook.com/FreqStatus
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- KVRist
- 86 posts since 24 Nov, 2008
To the OP: you might like to check out Alvaro Lopez's tutorials on drum programming over at The DSP Project.
I liked his style of explaining things, such as rhythmic tension, and he also gives some nice suggestions about how to use velocity (he calls it volume) to create interesting beats.
http://thedspproject.com/alvaro-lopez-o ... rogramming
http://thedspproject.com/alvaro-lopez-o ... nd-release
Cheers,
Trahast
I liked his style of explaining things, such as rhythmic tension, and he also gives some nice suggestions about how to use velocity (he calls it volume) to create interesting beats.
http://thedspproject.com/alvaro-lopez-o ... rogramming
http://thedspproject.com/alvaro-lopez-o ... nd-release
Cheers,
Trahast
Sigs are for siggies
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- Banned
- 129 posts since 25 Oct, 2010
I grew tired of pure rock steady 4/4 rhythms yonks ago so therefore haven't used them in yonks.
This is my method - in FL I set tempo to 120bpm, swing to 50%.
In the basic kit view I pan the hh hard left or right.
Swap clap for ratchet, guiro, cowbell, ride, claves, maracca, tamborine, or something - as long as it's a distinct sound to this track it doesn't matter: it's what's holding it together. Now pan hard opposite hh for balance.
Then place a kick in one or two of any of the 16 squares.
Same with the snare, but absolutely only one square not on any of the other beats.
One or two hh somewhere not on the same beats.
One shaker not on any other beats.
Now export it to a two second wave file.
Start again and do it five more times, each time all in different places, each time saving it as a u file.
u,wav
uu.wav
uuu.wav
uuuu.wav
uuuuu.wav
uuuuuu.wav
Now open Goldwave and the six files so that they're in a neat row at the
bottom of the screen.
Create a new file precisely 3 minutes long. Set your marker to the 30 second mark.
Maximimise u.wav and select all from the 500 milisecond matk, then copy and minimise.
Paste at the 30 second mark and select view 30 to 31.750.
Maximise uu.wav select all to 1.500, copy, minimise.
Can you see where I'm going with this?
Good.
Now once you've done this (1,2,1,2,3,2,3,2) you've managed to create the first part of a completely new and amazing piece of music no one has ever heard before.
Some notes like the (kick notably) will have long tails that that get cut and separated at cetain points - deleted the bit while your copying, undo, and then paste.
Okay, so open a new file 3 minutes long precisely, set marker to 1:30, and repeat what you've done except you start with uuuu, uuu, and uu.
2:30 on the first file, 30 on the second file, 1:30 on the first file, 2:30 on the second file, save both as 'whatever you wish' part A and part B.
Go back to Fruity and select you favorite good thumping deep bass preset (I'me presuming you've made millions...) and randomise it to 1 octave in whichever scale you like.
Thence save it as n.wav. Repeat until you possess 6 n's in series.
Depending on what scale tune you want maybe you should randomise either in the bass' scale or not. Anyway 6 t's should ensue.
Piano, organ, harmonica, *crazy synthy thing 23145 - whatever grabs ya, randomise in three or four channels, and insert six (6) notes on the first channel which may or may not be touching. (Sustained sounds with bland attacks are best because you can use the sequences backwards).
Manually insert those same notes onto the second channel - DO NOT copy and paste because this channel has been separately randomised so that we can create some funky unheard-of-before chord sequences.
And repeat on the third (and/or fourth) channel.
Now the law of averages dictates many of these notes will trigger twice or thrice creating three or four levels of dynamics on a single note - you know what to do - locate and exterminate! This is the longest part of the procedure and will take approximately ten whole seconds.
By now if you've read this far you've come to realise that by chopping and changing all these sections and there placements it should be possible to create an entire CD's worth of unique tracks, and you'd be right - and as I finish up I can tell you that in the time I've written this that's pecisely what I've just done.
Well the templates at least - pads and effects will follow, drumfills here and there, and tomorrow if I'm in the mood maybe add some vocals - not bad for ten minutes work eh?
This is my method - in FL I set tempo to 120bpm, swing to 50%.
In the basic kit view I pan the hh hard left or right.
Swap clap for ratchet, guiro, cowbell, ride, claves, maracca, tamborine, or something - as long as it's a distinct sound to this track it doesn't matter: it's what's holding it together. Now pan hard opposite hh for balance.
Then place a kick in one or two of any of the 16 squares.
Same with the snare, but absolutely only one square not on any of the other beats.
One or two hh somewhere not on the same beats.
One shaker not on any other beats.
Now export it to a two second wave file.
Start again and do it five more times, each time all in different places, each time saving it as a u file.
u,wav
uu.wav
uuu.wav
uuuu.wav
uuuuu.wav
uuuuuu.wav
Now open Goldwave and the six files so that they're in a neat row at the
bottom of the screen.
Create a new file precisely 3 minutes long. Set your marker to the 30 second mark.
Maximimise u.wav and select all from the 500 milisecond matk, then copy and minimise.
Paste at the 30 second mark and select view 30 to 31.750.
Maximise uu.wav select all to 1.500, copy, minimise.
Can you see where I'm going with this?
Good.
Now once you've done this (1,2,1,2,3,2,3,2) you've managed to create the first part of a completely new and amazing piece of music no one has ever heard before.
Some notes like the (kick notably) will have long tails that that get cut and separated at cetain points - deleted the bit while your copying, undo, and then paste.
Okay, so open a new file 3 minutes long precisely, set marker to 1:30, and repeat what you've done except you start with uuuu, uuu, and uu.
2:30 on the first file, 30 on the second file, 1:30 on the first file, 2:30 on the second file, save both as 'whatever you wish' part A and part B.
Go back to Fruity and select you favorite good thumping deep bass preset (I'me presuming you've made millions...) and randomise it to 1 octave in whichever scale you like.
Thence save it as n.wav. Repeat until you possess 6 n's in series.
Depending on what scale tune you want maybe you should randomise either in the bass' scale or not. Anyway 6 t's should ensue.
Piano, organ, harmonica, *crazy synthy thing 23145 - whatever grabs ya, randomise in three or four channels, and insert six (6) notes on the first channel which may or may not be touching. (Sustained sounds with bland attacks are best because you can use the sequences backwards).
Manually insert those same notes onto the second channel - DO NOT copy and paste because this channel has been separately randomised so that we can create some funky unheard-of-before chord sequences.
And repeat on the third (and/or fourth) channel.
Now the law of averages dictates many of these notes will trigger twice or thrice creating three or four levels of dynamics on a single note - you know what to do - locate and exterminate! This is the longest part of the procedure and will take approximately ten whole seconds.
By now if you've read this far you've come to realise that by chopping and changing all these sections and there placements it should be possible to create an entire CD's worth of unique tracks, and you'd be right - and as I finish up I can tell you that in the time I've written this that's pecisely what I've just done.
Well the templates at least - pads and effects will follow, drumfills here and there, and tomorrow if I'm in the mood maybe add some vocals - not bad for ten minutes work eh?
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- Banned
- 129 posts since 25 Oct, 2010
p.s because no one really listens to the drums that closely it's actually the template for about ten albums released one or two years apart (but ssh don't tell anyone...)
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- KVRAF
- 1676 posts since 17 Dec, 2002 from Yorkshire
- drum patterns at least 8 bars long (16 is perfect) to avoid typical dance/trance "looping"
- 3-5 snares hits supported by 2-3 clap hits (fit them across your 8-16 bar pattern)
- reverse snares and claps - essential
- instead of dense hi hats use shakers (syncopated)
- off beat open hats (sort of ballad rock placement) - do good
- reverb and delay automation is your best friend
Following the above as a general rule I would try this:
scatter across 8-16 bars as many as practical of short drum phrases (different precussive sounds), which will create the "loop". As we talk about prog, start with not too dense arrangements to let you build up the tension in the final parts by adding busier parts and/or shortening the "loop" (say 4 bars out of 16 original one).
I hope it make sense.
- 3-5 snares hits supported by 2-3 clap hits (fit them across your 8-16 bar pattern)
- reverse snares and claps - essential
- instead of dense hi hats use shakers (syncopated)
- off beat open hats (sort of ballad rock placement) - do good
- reverb and delay automation is your best friend
Following the above as a general rule I would try this:
scatter across 8-16 bars as many as practical of short drum phrases (different precussive sounds), which will create the "loop". As we talk about prog, start with not too dense arrangements to let you build up the tension in the final parts by adding busier parts and/or shortening the "loop" (say 4 bars out of 16 original one).
I hope it make sense.
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- KVRist
- 64 posts since 17 Apr, 2003
Nice topic!
This is my main weakness and nowadays I decided to improve on it.
How do you use shuffle? (if you use)
As I hear it's necessary in order to achieve groovy rythm.
One rule I think, that it couldn't be used on the main elements of the rythm (kick, main snare).
Moreover it should be the same amout in every percussion track, because it can cause to kill the transients.
(I'm not sure about this though)
cheers,
This is my main weakness and nowadays I decided to improve on it.
How do you use shuffle? (if you use)
As I hear it's necessary in order to achieve groovy rythm.
One rule I think, that it couldn't be used on the main elements of the rythm (kick, main snare).
Moreover it should be the same amout in every percussion track, because it can cause to kill the transients.
(I'm not sure about this though)
cheers,
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- KVRAF
- 2147 posts since 30 Oct, 2006 from Australia, NSW
These guys have excellent drum samples
http://www.wavealchemy.co.uk/
http://www.wavealchemy.co.uk/
http://www.voltagedisciple.com
Patches for PHASEPLANT ACE,PREDATOR, SYNPLANT, SUB BOOM BASS2,PUNCH , PUNCH BD
AALTO,CIRCLE,BLADE and V-Haus Card For Tiptop Audio ONE Module
https://soundcloud.com/somerville-1i
Patches for PHASEPLANT ACE,PREDATOR, SYNPLANT, SUB BOOM BASS2,PUNCH , PUNCH BD
AALTO,CIRCLE,BLADE and V-Haus Card For Tiptop Audio ONE Module
https://soundcloud.com/somerville-1i
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- KVRAF
- 1666 posts since 28 Jun, 2007 from Amazon rain forest
Dunno if you're talking about latin rhythms, but you can apply these tips to other kind of electronic percussion with great results:
http://www.petelockett.com/pete%20new%2 ... mming.html
http://www.petelockett.com/pete%20new%2 ... mming.html
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- KVRist
- 232 posts since 28 Oct, 2008 from Netherlands
The shuffle is definately the key to groovy percussion tracks in a lot of progressive house tracks. You can easily set a shuffle value in your DAW and quantize all the percussion to it, best is to use a slider listen to when the amount of shuffle is right.
Another important thing is dynamic, assign the velocity to the volume and perhaps a low pass filter of a hi hat, and make a groove pattern with that. It is in my opinion really not a question of sample choice but it's about using material in a musical way.
Since we're all musicians, a sound file says more than a thousands words,
This is a standard 909 hat with just a 16th note midi pattern
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2270492/Straight%20beat%202.mp3
This is the exact same hi hat, the same pattern, just with shuffle and velocity modulation (volume, filter and attack)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2270492/Shuffle%20beat%202.mp3
The second example already starts grooving while the first is extremely robotic, the only difference is just adding some musical parameters, dynamic and groove. The choice of samples is really not that important as long as you use them in a musical way.
Another important thing is dynamic, assign the velocity to the volume and perhaps a low pass filter of a hi hat, and make a groove pattern with that. It is in my opinion really not a question of sample choice but it's about using material in a musical way.
Since we're all musicians, a sound file says more than a thousands words,
This is a standard 909 hat with just a 16th note midi pattern
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2270492/Straight%20beat%202.mp3
This is the exact same hi hat, the same pattern, just with shuffle and velocity modulation (volume, filter and attack)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2270492/Shuffle%20beat%202.mp3
The second example already starts grooving while the first is extremely robotic, the only difference is just adding some musical parameters, dynamic and groove. The choice of samples is really not that important as long as you use them in a musical way.
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- KVRAF
- 1676 posts since 17 Dec, 2002 from Yorkshire
In majority of cases yes. But if you are after very "loose"/"floating" beat I wouldn't stick to that assumption.lunatic wrote: As I hear it's necessary in order to achieve groovy rythm.
One rule I think, that it couldn't be used on the main elements of the rythm (kick, main snare).
I'm finding swing very useful on snares. I guess in more "breaky" part of a prog track (eg breakdown) a bit of swing on kick wouldn't do any harm too.
I'm finding offseting claps and snares extremely effective in achiving snappy, punchy accents (3-4 shots layered). 5-25ms does the trick (few % of swing). It is also worth try this technique with reversed shots (higher offsets). It gives nice "slappy" electro snares effect.
It does not apply that well for kicks in 4/4 track. But in r'n'b sometimes works magic (sort of roll effect).
As said above velocity/filter application is essential to get the desired result.
Automated multi effectors like effectrifix and alike give the edge to any beat track.