Supersaw!

[TiUser]

I find though that the spectrum of the sawtooths is well matched, and some superficial stares on an oscilloscpe unveil a stunning resemblence.

You are the expert but I just asked myself how you compared the waveforms on your scope. Scopes are usually very limiting in level resolution (unless you use one of these super expensive digital Tec scopes). So did you subtract the signals and got a close to zero result, even when increasing gain?

I'm just curious. I think waveform comparisons turn often out to be very coarse.

[sonicpowa]

I would say example 2 = JP

[Urs]

Hard to say which one of these is the JP, the melo is not really optimal for comparing^^

That's what I think too. Comparisons are IMHO better done with less detune and no distracting melodies at all.

The second example sounds a little bit brighter. So i would say example 1 is the JP, because the most digital in vst used osc's, specially if bandlimited have a brighter touch in the sound.

I had to add a filter into the signal path. Varying resonance a little bit (1%-2%) makes things quickly too bright or too dull.

Btw, how exactly is the JP-emulation now builded? Only via detuning of the single saws, or also with different pan and phase settings?
Because many synths working there on other ways, like sylenths, there are the waveforms in the unisio spreaded in the panning, depented from the voice-count, and on the virus are the phases of the waves also different, also depented on the voice/uni count.

The examples are mono because the JP8000 itself only creates a monophonic Supersaw in its OSC1 section (I find the term "Supersaw Oscillator" misleading as it's in general a stack of multiple oscillators or oscillator-like mechanisms). Like the Virus one can additionally stack voices and pan them for stereo results. But that's not part of the exercise, as I'm currently only looking for the raw JP8000 supersaw sound. The secret of which I havn't 100% sussed out and which I'm not yet ready to reveal.

[Cyforce]

That's what I think too. Comparisons are IMHO better done with less detune and no distracting melodies at all.

Best would be there, to take a good long pad melo, but without chords

[Urs]

I'm just curious. I think waveform comparisons turn often out to be very coarse.

I've written my own scope & analyser software.

The very distinct shape of the JP8000's Supersaw can easily be identified in a scope. It not only sounds different, it also looks different from all other Supersaw implementations I came across.

You're right - it's not anything exact though, and ears are more important than eyes

Cancellation tests are close to impossible to perform. The stacked oscillators in the JP8000 can not be reset in phase, and they can not be completely tuned to the "master sawtooth oscillator", nor can they be completely faded out. There's always something going on, so the only chance to do a cancellation test is by recording a long, held note of the JP and then manually set phase and tune for each slave oscillator. To do that one has to observe the movement of phase wraps over seceral minutes of audio. Not even I would go that far.

Urs

[nollock]

But that's not part of the exercise, as I'm currently only looking for the raw JP8000 supersaw sound. The secret of which I havn't 100% sussed out and which I'm not yet ready to reveal.

The samples someone posted in the DSP forum a while back it seemed to indicate that it's a bunch of niave sawtooths with a highpass filter to remove any aliases that happen below the fundamental. So you have 3 sets of side band sawtooths, with decreasing detune and magnitude as they get away from teh fundamental.

IIRC that is.

[sonicpowa]

So example 1 is actually JP? I find e2 is more interesting.

[Urs]

The samples someone posted in the DSP forum a while back it seemed to indicate that it's a bunch of niave sawtooths with a highpass filter to remove any aliases that happen below the fundamental. So you have 3 sets of side band sawtooths, with decreasing detune and magnitude as they get away from teh fundamental

Yes, that seems to be the common view, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong. Instead I think that it's not a naive sawtooth because the aliasing is very minimal. Instead I think it's a rather clever thought out algorithm. Maybe the phase wraps are quantised to certain fractions of samples with well defined aliasing frequencies.

[Urs]

So example 1 is actually JP? I find e2 is more interesting.

Example 1 is the soft. The soft still resets all phases with each note, and I think I closed the filter too much.

[djsubject]

If at all, post a mp3/wav yourself, along with the MIDI. If it's *dry* (no reverb, no filters, no nothing, just plain oscillators) then I'll happily post the MIDI run through whatever I have at my disposal (software, digital hardware, analog hardware).

Here

http://www.sendspace.com/file/noxico

Rar file contains mp3 on fully dry sound. No filtering. There is also that midi file. Sylenth 1 with 3 osc.

Well, this goes to show that your example doesn't sound like a JP8000 at all (did you tune one of the oscillators an octave up maybe?)

Here's my take:

Example 1
Example 2

One of these is the original JP8000 Supersaw. This can not be achieved by stacking ordinary sawtooth waveforms.

there is more "Mudd" in Example 1 but its that nice mudd thats hard to get in vst land

like a sub bass mudd (yes i know this makes no sense) basicly i think i'm saying Example 1 is thicker

Example 2 sounds really nice!! it already is an amazing super saw, the difference i'm noticing in the two saw's is only saturation the phase of the two saws are identical to my ears

Subz

[djsubject]

So example 1 is actually JP? I find e2 is more interesting.

Example 1 is the soft. The soft still resets all phases with each note, and I think I closed the filter too much.

when posting the above post i believed 1 was the hardware

need to re-listen!!

[djsubject]

re-listened and 1 still sounds the best to me!!

its stronger than 2, i love it!!

Subz

[Urs]

Actually, you might be right about the saturation. I used an XMF this time for the lowpass while yesterday's example as a non-distorting filter.

[boimb]

If at all, post a mp3/wav yourself, along with the MIDI. If it's *dry* (no reverb, no filters, no nothing, just plain oscillators) then I'll happily post the MIDI run through whatever I have at my disposal (software, digital hardware, analog hardware).

Here

http://www.sendspace.com/file/noxico

Rar file contains mp3 on fully dry sound. No filtering. There is also that midi file. Sylenth 1 with 3 osc.

Well, this goes to show that your example doesn't sound like a JP8000 at all (did you tune one of the oscillators an octave up maybe?)

Here's my take:

Example 1
Example 2

One of these is the original JP8000 Supersaw. This can not be achieved by stacking ordinary sawtooth waveforms.

They sound nothing alike. example1 1 has much more low frequency presence than sample2, i like example 1 much better. however, example2 beats the crap out of example1 when the melody goes up some octaves. example2 remaines much more defined (thinner actually, but i a good way), while example1 sounds way to "detuned/off-note"...

hmmm... nope, not there yet at all, imho.

[Urs]

They sound nothing alike. example1 1 has much more low frequency presence than sample2, i like example 1 much better. however, example2 beats the crap out of example1 when the melody goes up some octaves. example2 remaines much more defined (thinner actually, but i a good way), while example1 sounds way to "detuned/off-note"...

hmmm... nope, not there yet at all, imho.

Interesting find. Do you know of any synth that comes closer?