KVR Audio

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:19 pm

Architeuthis wrote:Another feature to add would be keyboard-tracking detuning.

If this ends up as a Zebra2 Osc module the infrastructure is already there to do this:

antto · Post by **antto** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:32 pm

aciddose wrote:we've been over this BS about "super-supersaws". it's a 12db highpass filter with some resonance. big deal.

i'm wondering.. if this filter is tied to the osc-pitch (even if there's some offset)
is it a filter at all? so it seems the waveform looks the same at any pitch so it can simply be a single wavetable or a equation (pure math) and no filter at all

what do you think?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:36 pm

bmrzycki wrote:
Architeuthis wrote:Another feature to add would be keyboard-tracking detuning.
If this ends up as a Zebra2 Osc module the infrastructure is already there to do this:

true... but it might be useful for it not to be a linear ramp so having a dedicated control on the module could be better...

you can make a custom curve in Zebra using the ModMapper(s) but there are only 2 of them

excellent discussion. It is interesting and educational and sounds like it may lead to new tools!

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:05 pm

hakey wrote:
Urs wrote:Here's my take:

Example 1
Example 2
And here's mine:

Super?

Anywhere near the ballpark/carpark/Yellowstone National Park?

No more comments?

I think my attempt sounds pretty damn close to Urs' Example 2 (the real JP8K).

That said I'm no supersaw expert, so I was hoping that the supersaw connoisseurs here might be willing to venture an opinion.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:15 pm

hakey wrote:
hakey wrote:
Urs wrote:Here's my take:

Example 1
Example 2
And here's mine:

Super?

Anywhere near the ballpark/carpark/Yellowstone National Park?
No more comments?

I think my attempt sounds pretty damn close to Urs' Example 2 (the real JP8K).

That said I'm no supersaw expert, so I was hoping that the supersaw connoisseurs here might be willing to venture an opinion.

I am slowly gaining an ear for the supersaw sound and understanding its nuances... but am not at home for a few days so cannot listen...

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:55 pm

djsubject wrote:re-listened and 1 still sounds the best to me!!
its stronger than 2, i love it!!

Agree, #1 sounds better.

A.M. Gold · Post by **A.M. Gold** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:32 pm

blueghost wrote:@ A.M.Gold

Go to your mirror and look in it at yourself.

Only at yourself.

See without looking (from the corner of your eye) that ghostly blue ghastly standing behind you?

That be me

WTF?

Is this something special for Halloween?

I do like ghosts, though. Just listened to Art Bell on the EVP episode of Coast to Coast last night. Pretty creepy.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:40 pm

antto wrote:
aciddose wrote:we've been over this BS about "super-supersaws". it's a 12db highpass filter with some resonance. big deal.
i'm wondering.. if this filter is tied to the osc-pitch (even if there's some offset)
is it a filter at all? so it seems the waveform looks the same at any pitch so it can simply be a single wavetable or a equation (pure math) and no filter at all

what do you think?

Well...

Can we agree that the JP8000 does something completely different from what e.g. the Virus' Hypersaw or most of the other known supersaw implementations do? Then I'd argue that the Roland engineers were either ingenious or they had limitations that forced them to do what they did. I'd vote for both.

Looking at the waveforms of the JP8000 I doubt that there's a single wavetable. Pretty much all of them have some degree of control that can't be explained by just a highpass filter.

I think that the Supersaw was so demanding on cpu that they couldn't contain the aliasing as much as e.g. with the very straight sawtooth of OSC2. Thus they added the highpass, and maybe a bit of lowpass on the upper end. The process itself is probably very simple, but not as simple as a naive sawtooth.

antto · Post by **antto** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:47 am

adamtrance wrote:

i'm judging by this picture
indeed, it looks like a sawtooth with a tied 12dB SVF-HP with ~0.75 resonance and about 0.5 octaves above the sawtooth frequency
but..
1) no matter at what frequency - the "waveform" would look the same
2) but that's if their HP filter was well tuned (it's digital, right?)
3) wasn't it easier to use a wavetable for this?

also, i looked at the JP-8000 manual.. there is this Noise waveform
and it seems it "scales" with frequency (i'm not sure) but it smells like noise in a wavetable which is pitched just like any wavetable osc

if it's a wavetable this requires:
7 x phase incrementing coefficients
7 x phase memory variables
7 x lookups into the same table, maybe even without interpolation

if it's saw -> Filter:
7 x phase incrementing coefficients
7 x phase memory variables
7 x filter coefficients (calculation or lookup)
7 x filter memory variables (y1 y2 ..)
7 x sawtooth process + filter process

now.. the second case smells like more CPU consumption..

Elektronisch · Post by **Elektronisch** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:06 am

tomg wrote:
keel wrote:
keel wrote:http://www.nonstop2k.com/community/midi ... php?id=143
I try to make some supersaw using that midi Feel free to guess synth.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/6trr6e
Genesis CM..

Sylenth1

Elektronisch · Post by **Elektronisch** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:01 am

Ive uploaded main lead part from my old song remix made in 2006 http://www.discogs.com/Machine-Raw/release/740988 and included midi of it. The lead was was made using Roland JP8080

Honestly, supersaw played alone doesnt sound that impressive as theres played low octave long notes, theres the beauty comes from roland...

http://www.sendspace.com/file/qiehj0

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:33 am

I just made samples from one of my AAS Tassman 4 synths called "HyperOSC" and used it for patches and a demosong of PPG Wave 3.V:

http://rapidshare.com/files/427985710/P ... Demo_1.mp3

The difference to other supersaw/hypersaw seems to be that i used a bunch of "real" Tassman 4 oscillators which are detuned with a single fader based on a fixed "offset" (this was the difficult part).

The result seems to sound different to the JP since no such "tricks" (e.g. HPF) are applied that are listed above. The original Tassman patch is very CPU demanding so a replication in older hardware would be difficult.

A part of the sample from Tassman 4 looks like this:
http://rapidshare.com/files/428091804/T ... rsaw_1.jpg

PS:
It's officially allowed now to post PPG Wave 3.V demos.

hakey · Post by **hakey** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:41 am

antto wrote:
if it's saw -> Filter:
7 x phase incrementing coefficients
7 x phase memory variables
7 x filter coefficients (calculation or lookup)
7 x filter memory variables (y1 y2 ..)
7 x sawtooth process + filter process

now.. the second case smells like more CPU consumption..

Wouldn't one HP filter suffice for all 7 sawtooth processes?

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:12 am

antto wrote:also, i looked at the JP-8000 manual.. there is this Noise waveform
and it seems it "scales" with frequency (i'm not sure) but it smells like noise in a wavetable which is pitched just like any wavetable osc

The noise osc has a keytracking, sweepable resonant LP filter built into it, nice for making ghostly sine waves

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:32 am

Sendy wrote:
antto wrote:also, i looked at the JP-8000 manual.. there is this Noise waveform
and it seems it "scales" with frequency (i'm not sure) but it smells like noise in a wavetable which is pitched just like any wavetable osc
The noise osc has a keytracking, sweepable resonant LP filter built into it, nice for making ghostly sine waves

Hehehe, it's a bandpass, isn't it?

Supersaw!