Recently I went back to a sample company, Sonic Implants, where I had previously purchased a two guitar sample CDs in the Soundfont (SF2) version that I was greatly dissatisfied with. Frankly, they didn't sound like the demos. Since I learned that the Giga versions, which cost the same price as the Soundfont versions were about five times the size and vastly superior (at the time I purchased I didn't know this, and Sonic Implants does not let customers know this in advance). Further, the demo I heard on their site didn't sound like the samples I received; the same demo is used for the Soundfonts as the Giga (my guess is that the demo was made with the Giga version). I find this misleading.
The Soundfont and Giga versions of Guitars and Amps cost the same price, $149.95.
Considering my dissatisfaction with the Soundfont version and my lack of awareness at the time of the enormous quality difference between the two sample sets of the same price, I went to Sonic Implants and asked them if they could extend a deal to me on the Giga version of Guitars and Amps. In gratitude, I even offered to buy an additional new sample CD at regular price.
Their head of marketing offered to sell me the Giga version of the product for $75. Here's his response:
"... (In) the in case of Amps & Pickups in particular, a lot of extra effort went in to creating the Giga version because he had to go back to the original tapes and get the extra samples that were added. Just to give you an idea, the Soundfont version of Amps & Pickups is 109 Meg, while the Giga version is 562 Meg. So we feel that we need to charge for each format, and we believe that the 50% discount is a reasonable offer."
Sonic Implants response made me even more irritated, as they made it clear that I paid the same amount for the inferior Soundfont version of Guitars and Amps that they charged for the superior Giga version, and now they wanted to charge me even more.
Considering that I already owned this CD in the SF2 version, and that many sample companies sell you CDs in multiple formats, I felt that Sonic Implants was taking advantage of me and resigned myself not to buy products from this company again.
Would you agree or disagree with my reaction? Please explain why.
- eDrummist
Is this sample company practicing good business? You vote.
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- KVRAF
- 19839 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA
My thought is...$149.00 for 109 megs of SOUNDFONTS? 
I think they should have charged less for the soundfonts if they contained fewer samples and took less work.From where I stand it looks like they lost the sale of one cd at full price,$30.00 for the second cd and a loyal customer all over $45.00.Doesn't seem like good business to me.
I think they should have charged less for the soundfonts if they contained fewer samples and took less work.From where I stand it looks like they lost the sale of one cd at full price,$30.00 for the second cd and a loyal customer all over $45.00.Doesn't seem like good business to me.
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- KVRist
- 185 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Edinburgh, UK
Sonic Implants offered me a trade-in for the GIGA versions...
If I sent them my AKAI versions of their sample CD's they'd send me the GIGA ones - I'd just pay for shipping... This was a year or so ago.
Never did it - wish I had. Nothing translates AKAI perfectly into anything...
If I sent them my AKAI versions of their sample CD's they'd send me the GIGA ones - I'd just pay for shipping... This was a year or so ago.
Never did it - wish I had. Nothing translates AKAI perfectly into anything...
-Res
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- KVRian
- 888 posts since 26 Aug, 2003 from SWEDEN
The amount of MB has nothing to do with work.
Or maybe it does, it takes time to make good samples small. It’s easier to make them big...
Sonic Implants probably had lots of more work with the Sf2 version than the Giga...
I think that Sonic Implants should post you a Giga CD for the shipping and package costs, or for free when and if you order another product.
And from now on, sell both CD´s in the same package, for the same price.
Lars
Or maybe it does, it takes time to make good samples small. It’s easier to make them big...
Sonic Implants probably had lots of more work with the Sf2 version than the Giga...
I think that Sonic Implants should post you a Giga CD for the shipping and package costs, or for free when and if you order another product.
And from now on, sell both CD´s in the same package, for the same price.
Lars
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- KVRAF
- 19839 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA
The NUMBER of samples does make a difference in the amount of work.To quote Sonic Implants(from the original post)" a lot of extra effort went in to creating the Giga version because he had to go back to the original tapes and get the extra samples that were added".More work higher price-less work lower price.Seems reasonable.Why would Soundfonts take more work than Gigas?
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1210 posts since 5 Dec, 2002 from Earth
Even if there was more work that went into the Giga version, as Mr Fox stated, Sonic Implants charges the same price for both. All his statement does is leave me with a feeling that anyone who buys the inferior Soundfont version for the same price as the superior Giga version gets a pretty unfair deal. Further, when they learn of this and want to get the Giga version, it's time to get some extra money, because after all, they only have a lower quality version?!
Hey, I've been in marketing, advertising and direct mail for around 20 years -- I know it well -- and I find this company's style, in this case, to be entirely inconsistent with gaining happy customers that make repeat purchases. I at least hope I can make other KVR'ers how Sonic Implants practices business before they spend the same money I did.
For the record, I've dealt with other sample companies, most noteably, Sonic Reality (which I learned about from KVR), that really treat customers well and I always have confidence that they will be fair to me. It's ashamed others will go for the quick buck at the expense of good customers.
- eDrummist
Hey, I've been in marketing, advertising and direct mail for around 20 years -- I know it well -- and I find this company's style, in this case, to be entirely inconsistent with gaining happy customers that make repeat purchases. I at least hope I can make other KVR'ers how Sonic Implants practices business before they spend the same money I did.
For the record, I've dealt with other sample companies, most noteably, Sonic Reality (which I learned about from KVR), that really treat customers well and I always have confidence that they will be fair to me. It's ashamed others will go for the quick buck at the expense of good customers.
- eDrummist
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- KVRAF
- 2336 posts since 13 Oct, 2002 from Terra Firma
This is an issue I find confusing. I wanted to by the Diva bundle but it's sold in 2 formats, Giga and Kontakt. I asked which version would be best to use with V Sampler 3 and the reply was probably Giga. I asked if the actual sound content was different in each format and whether each format had been optimised for their respective samplers wondering how this would impact on their use with other samplers.
As I understand it both the Giga and Kontakt versions are just mapped for their respective samplers. The sound content is the same. If this is definitely the case and it's just the format file information that needs to be included I can't understand why a multi-version format can't be sold.
Some companies sell multi-format samples. But it's also common for other companies to sell individual formats separately.
I've got Extreme Sample Converter 2 so it may not be an issue in the long run but I still don't like the single format approach.
As I understand it both the Giga and Kontakt versions are just mapped for their respective samplers. The sound content is the same. If this is definitely the case and it's just the format file information that needs to be included I can't understand why a multi-version format can't be sold.
Some companies sell multi-format samples. But it's also common for other companies to sell individual formats separately.
I've got Extreme Sample Converter 2 so it may not be an issue in the long run but I still don't like the single format approach.
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- KVRAF
- 2548 posts since 7 Jul, 2003 from Huntington, WV
However, the inferior nature of the original product is almost certainly not due to any wrong doing or any incompetence of Sonic Implants. You see, Sound Fonts by their very nature are much more limited than Gigasamples. This isn't the fault of Sonic Implants. It is a result of the limitations imposed by the two formats. The "responsibility" for that can be attributed to the companies Emu and NemeSys Music Technology.eDrummist wrote:All his statement does is leave me with a feeling that anyone who buys the inferior Soundfont version for the same price as the superior Giga version gets a pretty unfair deal.
The way I see it, you bought a small set of samples created for an inferior platform (Sound Font), and it was apparently your decision to work with this inferior platform--not Sonic Implants' decision. Now you want to upgrade to a superior platform (Giga -- good choice, by the way), and you expect Sonic Implants to provide you with a totally new and much larger set of samples in this superior format, at very little cost to you. I think you are expecting just a bit too much from Sonic Implants. Asking for a discount in your situation is a reasonable idea, but I don't think you understand the situation totally, and are expecting too large of a discount under the circumstances.
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
[DELETED]
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- KVRAF
- 2401 posts since 29 Dec, 2002 from In the dark
McLilith expressed my thought almost exactly. I will add one more thing. The fact that they even considered giving you a special price were a real bonus. 50% off was generous. I was told to go to hell by software companies at occasions for asking much less. One particular company (will not name names, but if you read some of my previous posts you will know who) even delivered LESS than advertised and then charge customers MORE for getting that feature back.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1210 posts since 5 Dec, 2002 from Earth
Thankful that they were offered to sell me the same sample version for $75 and told me the one I had was inferior samples. I have some products I want to start selling to you.ttoz wrote:I voted you did "very well"
. i don't care if they want to charge you 1000 bucks for a soundfont cd, no one put a gun to your head and made you buy it. the fact that they sell the giga version at the same price is their perogative, in fact, i'm amazed they gave you a 50% discount at all. you should be thankful.
- eDrummist
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
[DELETED]
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1210 posts since 5 Dec, 2002 from Earth
Okay, so your logic is that I purchased an inferior sample format which costs the same as the superior format for the same price and now I should pay for the superior format? (At the time I purchased I was unaware of the significant difference and thought the samples would sound like the demo).McLilith wrote:The way I see it, you bought a small set of samples created for an inferior platform (Sound Font), and it was apparently your decision to work with this inferior platform--not Sonic Implants' decision. Now you want to upgrade to a superior platform (Giga -- good choice, by the way), and you expect Sonic Implants to provide you with a totally new and much larger set of samples in this superior format, at very little cost to you. I think you are expecting just a bit too much from Sonic Implants. Asking for a discount in your situation is a reasonable idea, but I don't think you understand the situation totally, and are expecting too large of a discount under the circumstances.
I would agree with your logic if the inferior samples cost less. For example, if a Soundfont version cost $75 and the Giga version cost $150. However, since the two formats are priced identically, and Sonic Implants does not advise customers of the inferior quality of the Soundfonts, I would disagree.
- eDrummist
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1210 posts since 5 Dec, 2002 from Earth
ttoz,ttoz wrote:you asked for our opinion, and you got it. the poll clearly shows the majority think you were treated ok
Your right that the majority did vote that way, at the moment. And I did expect more people to see things similarly. I also realize that my poll can be easily misnterpreted (i.e., someone who does not read my post fully or scans and thinks I just got a 50% off deal; the problem could be remedied by putting a better description by the poll; sorry for being analytical, but I am a marketing professional).
In any event, a noteable percentage also find Sonic Implants' handling of this problematic. I did put this up to see how others interpret the situation. Clearly, not all of us see it the same. I just want to make sure I made my point clearly, becuase as a marketing professional and former marketing consultant, I see Sonic Implants policy as, not as something I would call unethical, but something that makes them less than a customer-friendly company. I also find their promotion of the Soundfont version was less than clear. I don't expect everyone to see it that way, but as someone who has spent their career advising or managing this area for companies, I strongly see it this way. I also see a company throwing away a customer relationship over what was $45. I do know of other companies that would have offered the other format for the cost of packaging and shipping.
- eDrummist
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- KVRAF
- 2973 posts since 10 Sep, 2003 from Karlskoga, Stockholm, Sweden
For what i can read on their site, SF2 version costs $199.95 and GIGA costs $229.95.
The most important thing on this site is... *drumroll*
They use the same mp3 demo for both the libaries. The SF2 libarys demo is using sounds from the GIGA library.
That is called false marketing. Lawsuit perhaps??
In one way you could see that the GIGA version uses two cds instead of one. .. but that doesnt affect the fact that they demoed one product with another.
Its like letting you take a porche for testdriving and then sell you a fiat or something.
Be strong. Companies are often dumb until they realize they did wrong. (and then the great apologizeletter comes, where they blame on tornados and earthquakes..)
Good luck!
The most important thing on this site is... *drumroll*
They use the same mp3 demo for both the libaries. The SF2 libarys demo is using sounds from the GIGA library.
That is called false marketing. Lawsuit perhaps??
In one way you could see that the GIGA version uses two cds instead of one. .. but that doesnt affect the fact that they demoed one product with another.
Its like letting you take a porche for testdriving and then sell you a fiat or something.
Be strong. Companies are often dumb until they realize they did wrong. (and then the great apologizeletter comes, where they blame on tornados and earthquakes..)
Good luck!