Business ethics

[Music Engineer]

Robin, as an EU-based business you even *have* to post your international VAT ID and your telephone number (See the "Abmahnwelle" on websites that lack a proper "Impressum"). I'm sure though that you do not need to post these things if you don't have them.

OK, added the phone number. that thing with international VAT ID - i'm a bit confused about all these different tax numbers. i have a "Persönliche Identifikationsnummer" - i gathered that this would be the "Tax Ident Number (TIN)" in international lingo. then, i have also a "Steuernummer" which i use for VAT, but that number doesn't follow the international VAT-ID format, so it must be again something different. i think i don't really have an international VAT ID, perhaps due to the fact that i operate without VAT according to §19 UStG (Kleinunternehmerregelung).

[antto]

1. legal note / contact information

For one thing, I noticed that some companies don't have a legal note on their website, that means a proper contact info. In the European Union of course every company has to add such to its website, as implemented in each EU country upon a directive (see link, Article 5).

Of course, not every developer is a company; just because they're charging money doesn't necessarily mean they're even doing it for the profit. Plenty of people do it for 'beer money'.

+1

[AdmiralQuality]

When a customer buys a license from me, he and I basically sign a legally binding contract (not talking fraud). Any customer must give his full address to get the sale through, and no matter if he fakes that or not, at some point in the chain he left his real address that identifies him, e.g. for his bank account, for his credit card or for his paypal account that he verified with his credit card.

I don't get any of that information from my customers. All I'm guaranteed to get is their email address, often I don't even get a real name! Presumably PayPal has their name, credit card number, address, whatever -- but not me. Sometimes I get a name and address, but it's by no means guaranteed or required. I'm actually glad I don't have any of that info, because then I don't need to worry about keeping it secure. I'm a music software developer, not a bank, and I make music software developer money, not bank money. I can't AFFORD to take care of this kind of data in a responsible way, but my customer and myself are both insulated from that risk by PayPal.

And customers can buy from me, then charge-back on their credit card for any reason at all (and I'm not even privy to the supposed reason) and there's nothing I can do to un-sell them their license key. The customer has ALL the power, we are completely at their mercy.

Some "contract"!

[Urs]

i operate without VAT according to §19 UStG (Kleinunternehmerregelung).

See, in that case you just put that on your website

[Urs]

1. legal note / contact information

For one thing, I noticed that some companies don't have a legal note on their website, that means a proper contact info. In the European Union of course every company has to add such to its website, as implemented in each EU country upon a directive (see link, Article 5).

Of course, not every developer is a company; just because they're charging money doesn't necessarily mean they're even doing it for the profit. Plenty of people do it for 'beer money'.

+1

+1

[AdmiralQuality]

1. legal note / contact information

For one thing, I noticed that some companies don't have a legal note on their website, that means a proper contact info. In the European Union of course every company has to add such to its website, as implemented in each EU country upon a directive (see link, Article 5).

Of course, not every developer is a company; just because they're charging money doesn't necessarily mean they're even doing it for the profit. Plenty of people do it for 'beer money'.

+1

+1

You guys can afford BEER? I'm comin' over!

[antto]

actually, the fact that i don't drink alchohol at all (unlike all the people i know) is a plus, i give 1 fourth of my money for cigarettes, and if i also drink beer every day - i'll be totaly broke

[nollock]

Things are different in different countries. Starting a little business in the US is extremely simple, while it is a nightmare in Europe. In the US you can start this in your garage, adding the revenues (if any) to your personal income, then incorporating when it makes sense to. This allows for a lot of innovation. Thousands of companies have started this way, in an informal way.

Yeah we can do that over here (UK). What you do when you file income tax is about the same as what a self employed person has to do in the UK. I guess a big difference is that you have a whole industry that pops up once a year to help people do it. It's testement to the complexity of the US tax system that most everyone (at least in my experience) goes to get profesional help to file their taxes.

FWIW I've lived in both the US and the UK, i run my own business here, and helped the mother in law with her's while I was in the US. There's not a great deal of difference.

[xoxos]

i don't even have a webform on my site. when i switched hosting companies i lost that provision and haven't found a new free webform.

i love making vsts. but dude - i've been gang stalked for over five years, and jsut spent nine months living in a freaking tent, plugging my laptop into the power supply in stadium bleachers and wherever i could.

i have endeavoured to be as open and emphatic as possible about the merits and deficits of my products, and would love to provide better contact et c. but it's not happening now.

there aren't so many se devs around here anymore huh, are there. so where did they all go? do you think that making electronic music was just a passing thing for them alone, peculiarly, despite all the passion and dedication it took?

[Urs]

there aren't so many se devs around here anymore huh, are there. so where did they all go? do you think that making electronic music was just a passing thing for them alone, peculiarly, despite all the passion and dedication it took?

Many got eaten up by bigger companies. (I don't mean that literally)

As I said, no-one urges you to put a contact from on your website. At least you're redirecting people to your forum on KVR, that's an absolutely honest an viable way to handle your situation.

[antto]

there aren't so many se devs around here anymore huh, are there. so where did they all go?

[RunBeerRun]

Every site has a user testimonial-

This plugin was so good I pooped my pants.

Now come on!

[AdmiralQuality]

3.1. user testimonials

If I could, I would stop fake user testimonials. Quoting people who have been paid an NFR for a couple of nice words is IMHO a deception.

What if you pay them with cash?

[munchkin]

I'm really pleased to see this thread. I sometimes worry about buying a product from a new developer (or an old one) who has no contact details. Also, the idea of buying something from a developer who is overseas and has no contact info does not make me feel comfortable. My suggestions:

1. Developers should have contact details on their site. Even if it's just a P.O. Box and an email. It's not very expensive to set up a business phone line separate from a home one. Maybe it's possible to use Skype? I have to give my name, full address, bank details and even register to buy a product. I expect the same courtesy from the company I'm giving my details to.

2. Licenses should always include the option to use the plugin on two computers (e.g. PC/MAC and laptop). I think this is essential because a lot of musicians travel about and can't always work at home.

3. It would be helpful if discounted student licenses could be made available for verified students on a long term course. Many students are on audio and video courses hoping to go on to work in those fields. They often live on a very low income but are more likely to get a better paid job at the end of their course. It's a way of building brand loyalty and helping the next generation of musicians/artists/film makers.

4. If a developer who uses C/R protection plans to close shop then customers should be given a serial so that they can continue to use the product in the future. NI and Spectrasonics make this promise so there's no excuse.

5. Developers should offer a Paypal payment option so that those using methods of payment other than credit card (e.g. debit card) are protected.

6. Marketing should not involve promoting a product at the expense of competitors using false or misguiding claims that could possibly be confusing to customers. For example using impenetrable jargon or comparing apples with oranges.

7. Marketing can compare competitors products if it handles a task better than a competitors product. For example if it's possible to demonstrate that one plugin will render video quicker than another then that's a verifiable improvement.

A few ideas for consideration.

[NAS]

Seems to me a lot of the ideas here go against the little man heavily
Kind of comes across as a way for the mid size developer to kill off the little man entirely cause sure as shit is shit the big devs (If they even bother to read this) would be laughing their collective tits off
No way in hell are you ever going to stop a major software developer from putting false marketing crap on their site because it would be like asking ford not to have some scantily clad woman draped over their new car at a show
(There was a feel of "Someone pissed in my thread and i'm angry" to parts of it too)

I could go through the entire list and tell you why it really is so stupid to even think you could create a code of conduct but why bother

Most of the developers who have posted in this thread have a trusted reputation and i see no point at all in that not continuing as is and let the rest of the world get on with what they want to do

This is 2010, it is the internet, get used to it because anyone could come up with the best VSTi anyone has ever heard (They will) and not give any contact info beyond a forum and email and hey guess what , they may even give the best support anyone has ever seen too
Who exactly are any of us to say this is a bad thing ?

NAS