Is this sample company practicing good business? You vote.

[munchkin]

I think the problem with single formats is that when people try to improve their sampler and buy a better one (when they have more money.) They are limited to the one format unless they can convert it. The difficulty is that you can't predict what sampler you'll buy in the future. So multi-format samples would reduce this problem.

Also, those of us who don't use GigaStudio, Halion or Kontakt end up having to judge which format is the most compatible to buy for our sampler. I know we can convert formats but it would be fantastic if developers would agree on one format. I don't see them doing this though as it'll open them up to more competition.

[Crackbaby]

I can point you to another 60+ CD's on soundsonline.com right now that does this exact same thing, no demos of the 'cheap' version, IE the whole ProSample line.
Devon

Well then. Go to soundsonline.com and check before you write.

"Please note: the audio demos and review quotes are from the original version of these libraries. For a complete listing of what is on the ProSamples version download the ProSamples Library Wizard at the top of this page."

This is what soundsonline.com types about the prosamples library - on each page for each different library.


----

And the point you make out of demos sounding very good with VSL. Well, did they send you anything other then VSL? Perhaps a 32Mb soundbank? No, they gave you excactly what you paid for. I think you should think of the difference between samplelibrarys too. If you go buy VSL you probably know what you are doing. Its not cheap, and its not for the beginner. Try to compare sonic implants library with VSL and see if you can find the difference.

[DevonB]

I think the problem with single formats is that when people try to improve their sampler and buy a better one (when they have more money.) They are limited to the one format unless they can convert it. The difficulty is that you can't predict what sampler you'll buy in the future. So multi-format samples would reduce this problem.

Also look at the age of the sampler market too. I paid $2800 for an EMu E64, paid another $800 to upgrade it to 64 megs, and another $250 for the best SCSI CDrom out at the time. Before that, I owned an Ensoniq ASR-10, which cost $2600. The outlay of a few libraries in comparison is cheap, and 'upgrading' back then, which 'back then' is only a few years ago, really didn't happen.

Now the market has majorily changed. It's a good chance you've paid more for one sample library than you paid for your sampler. Sample library prices hasn't changed much over the years, just what plays them back. There is just the expense of time, and paying someone to do the conversion, hopefully, somebody good who knows the ropes for that sampler's format and its strengths. So you pick your market, and go for it. Most of these libraries are made by one or two people, that's it. If you know your target market is Giga, and you know HALion doens't bring in nearly the sales as Giga, the incentive isn't there.

Yes, I do see your point that more formats would be great. I'm just trying to throw in the business aspect into the picture too, because sales of this stuff isn't exactly huge.

Devon

[spikey]

What he got was, Its your fault (you idiot). We are not about to help you out.

That's not true. They did offer to help him, by offering a discount on the second sample set.

Spikey, I think your very negative attitude toward the vendor is grossly excessive and needlessly polarizing to this discussion. I've had the misfortune to deal with a few arrogant companies that behave as you describe, but I don't think that description fits this discussion about Sonic Implants--at least not based on what has been revealed in this forum so far.

I do care about the buyer in this situation, but it seems to me that the only potential complaint he has is one of the product quality not matching the demo quality -- and that only applies if he bought the product recently. If he's had the soundfont version for some time, he can't expect to suddenly become tired of it and trade it in for something better, at the vendor's expense.

(The buyer mentioned something about learning more about sampling since buying the product, which is the reason that I wonder how long he had the product before he tried to upgrade from Soundfonts to the Gigasampler format.)

Yea, they helped him out by charging him more money on the same samples "cost wise". Big help. So you must mean because they even offered anything? Well in that case, you could have a point...



Asking about the sample quality of certain formats before ordering IMO, is almost like asking them if they are honest or not. It wont help or prove a thing. Either the company is, or isnt, and they will answer you honestly or not. I have no personal beef with Sonic Implants nor do I also think that most vendors or their people are dishonest either, but to answer your question- Just maybe I have very negative attitude toward some vendors and their people, because they earn it.

[eDrummist]

I mentioned, earlier in this thread, that I bought these samples around a year ago. The samples did not sound like the demo. I was unhappy with the samples I received, didn't really use them and never purchased from Sonic Implants again. I have purchased from Sonic Reality, East West, Big Fish, Wizoo and some of the smaller sample developers who post on KVR such as the person who makes Big Bottle and Frame (which, incidentily, is very good) and had much better experiences.

So, I recently went back to Sonic Implants after hearing one of their new product demos that got my attention. But considering my previous experience, I contacted their marketing guy to see if he could provide me at least one of the CDs I purchased in the past in Giga format for $30 when I was going to give Sonic Implants another shot and buy Guitars and Amps, with some more pre-purchase questions this time.

By the way, after I purchased the Sonic Implants Soundfonts, I didn't give up trying to find good guitar samples and I purchased Fluid's Electric Guitar CD for $30 (it's now $15), which I think is excellent. If anyone is looking for guitar Soundfonts, check out http://www.fluidfonts.com. This product was at least as good as, and possibly better than, the demos on the site and, in my opinion, its incredibly superior to the Sonic Implants Soundfonts I purchased for five times the cost.

- eDrummist

[Green Red Brownell]

Sorry, I think this markting practice might be borderline deceptive... they should state which version the demos were made with. But I also think that, since you waited a year to approach Sonic Implants with your problem, you pretty much forfeited your claims. I think you were offered a fair deal by the company. Many other posters in this thread haven't picked up on this time lapse, and assumed that you were dissatisfied immediately after purchase.

Here's hoping your medical problem is soon over, and you can get back to making music. If you feel badly treated by Sonic Implants, then by all means do not buy their products.

[eDrummist]

Here's an additional point. Sonic Implants does have a page called "All About Soundfonts" on their site. I recall reading it back when I was new to things. http://www.sonicimplants.com/Products/a ... dfonts.htm

And DevonB, I do not think it is accurate to say that ALL Soundfonts are inherently inferior to other formats. In fact, it is a matter of recording, mixing, and programming (e.g., layers, etc.). A Soundfont, from my understanding, could be as good of quality of a sample as another format. However, the Soundfont FORMAT is significantly limited over more professional formats as Giga, Kontakt and Halion. Considering this, I do not think it precise for one to assert that he or she automatically knows that a Soundfont sample will certainly be inferior to other formats (experts please correct me). Although, as I have found, it is likely to be the case for complex samples. Should sample developers be clearer if they sell multiple formats for the same cost and one is grossly inferior, yet sold for the same price? In my opinion, absolutely. It's good business and it's the high road when it comes to shooting straight with customers.

- eDrummist

[Green Red Brownell]

Sorry, I think this markting practice might be borderline deceptive... they should state which version the demos were made with. But I also think that, since you waited a year to approach Sonic Implants with your problem, you pretty much forfeited your claims. I think you were offered a fair deal by the company. Many other posters in this thread haven't picked up on this time lapse, and assumed that you were dissatisfied immediately after purchase.

Here's hoping your medical problem is soon over, and you can get back to making music. If you feel badly treated by Sonic Implants, then by all means do not buy their products.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[Crackbaby]

as usual, Devon says it better than I could. Sonic Implants have been wonderful to me, and i will continue to deal with them as a customer, in fact, this thread has prompted me to guy buy their symphonic strings mini right now

One persons loss is anothers ttoz

I agree that its hard to do something about it after a year. But still, they demoed another product and they still do. And that you, ttoz, are supporting them because of this.. Perhaps you have never been ripped off before (and thinks its funny when it happens to others??).

[DevonB]

And DevonB, I do not think it is accurate to say that ALL Soundfonts are inherently inferior to other formats. In fact, it is a matter of recording, mixing, and programming (e.g., layers, etc.). A Soundfont, from my understanding, could be as good of quality of a sample as another format. However, the Soundfont FORMAT is significantly limited over more professional formats as Giga, Kontakt and Halion. Considering this, I do not think it precise for one to assert that he or she automatically knows that a Soundfont sample will certainly be inferior to other formats (experts please correct me). Although, as I have found, it is likely to be the case for complex samples. Should sample developers be clearer if they sell multiple formats for the same cost and one is grossly inferior, yet sold for the same price? In my opinion, absolutely. It's good business and it's the high road when it comes to shooting straight with customers.

- eDrummist

I think you're taking me out of context here. SF is limited compared to other formats. If you did no special programming whatsoever, like key switching, mod wheel switching, special envelope routing, size restrictions of samples and sample sets, etc etc etc, all sound sets are equal. It's the 'extras' that make them different. A violin sample is a violin sample, played back with any sample engine (ok ok, not all play sound back at the same quality, but let's not get into that, please. ) Saying the 'sound' is inferior because it's in SF format is rediculous. Only the format itself, and what its capable of is inferior, which has nothing to do with if the guy recorded wiht a $20 mike, or a $3000 mike. So basically, we're talking about comparing apples to apples here and agreeing.

As for pricing, I don't agree. Unless you programmed it yourself, you have NO idea how much work went into it. If they are looped, I promise you more work went into it than if it's simply raw samples. It could also be a case of they hired out someone externally to do the SF version, but could do the Giga version in house, so SF cost them more to do, and they are making up for it.

Still, it's up the the developer to charge what they feel is a fair price, and it's up to us, the consumer to decide if that price is fair or not. Vote with your wallet. Automatically assuming that since it's SF, and it's inferior, it should be cheaper, I don't buy. If it was an Audio cd only, it should be cheaper, but it did have to be programmed by someone, not just recorded.

Devon

[eDrummist]

Sorry, I think this markting practice might be borderline deceptive... they should state which version the demos were made with. But I also think that, since you waited a year to approach Sonic Implants with your problem, you pretty much forfeited your claims. I think you were offered a fair deal by the company.

I think you are right about the time lapse -- as long as you remove the problematic misrepresentations that Sonic Implants still engages in with the MP3s. I did wait too long. It certainly would have been easier if I immediately brought my dissatisfaction to Sonic Implants attention. But you should understand, when I received the Sonic Implants CDs I didn't understand the reason why the didn't sound like the MP3s.

I was extremely dissatisfied with the Guitars and Amps CD (and the other one, to a lesser extent), and didn't intend to buy from Sonic Implants again because I thought they just made lousy samples.

I didn't realize it was because the version I purchased was different from the MP3 demo. It took months, reading and experience (a lot from KVR) to learn the difference between sample formats and take an educated guess that the reason my samples didn't sound just like the demos was due to the demos being made from a superior, yet same cost, format to the one I was sold. I simply became resigned to not buy again from Sonic Implants. It was only recently I decided to give them another chance and tell them my story to see if they would rectify things. Their response was extremely disappointing.

Understand that the reason I mentioned earlier that I am a marketer is because I analyze these things not only as a consumer, but as a professional who has advised many companies on these types of issues. I have spent a lot of time and research on customer strategies and that is why I was so curious how most KVR'ers would think about my, admittedly complex situation. My post is somewhat about a consumer (me) sharing a bad experience in order to alert others, but also because I was interested (maybe, fascinated) to see how others would interpret the situation.

- eDrummist

[ObsoleteAcc99]

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[Crackbaby]

huh?

are you trying your best to pick a fight? cause you are really starting to get on my nerves. i suppose anyone with a nic like that either implies:

1) you are a warez user
2) are f**ked up on crack

so i'll forgive you cause your obviously disadvantaged.

try and get your little mind around this:
NO, i DON'T think it's funny if someone s ripped off. and YES, i have been ripped off many times. BUT in this case i don't think he hHAS been ripped off, hence my vote, and hence my opinion.

1) Im not
2) Im not

Im certanly not disadvantaged. Think two steps deeper and you might get the reason behind the nick (and no, it doesnt have anything to do with crack in any way or form).

You dont think its funny?
"this thread has prompted me to guy buy their symphonic strings mini right now "

Are you still in denial of the mp3 demos?
Whatever you say, it still was wrong by the company and depending on country - illegal. Deny it, sure, just think about who's the disadvantaged one.

Right after you said that you were going to buy more stuff from them because of this thread (and because of what happened to edrummist - since that is what this thread is about) you did one of this ":D". Very happy is the name of that smiley.
He got ripped off because of the demo, and nothing can change that fact, unless something new comes up. DevonB tried with his computergames and prosamples (lol .. thank you devon).
So he got ripped off.
You got "very happy".