Hope that all of the above makes sense
When and how can you momentarily diverge from the songs current key?
-
- KVRist
- 65 posts since 24 May, 2005
This is a question I've been meaning to ask for a while now. There are times that it seems one can play a note that doesn't seem to be in the current key (taking into account my basic knowledge of keys) and it fits perfectly well into the phrase. Whereas at other times it sounds wrong or out of place. An example off the top of my head would be in . The song seems to be in the key of C#/Db Major, but it contains a B as the bass note at the end of the phrase. Another example might be in . The song seem to constantly change from being in the key of A Major to being in Ab/G# Major, but in the bassline one of the notes in a part that seems to me to be in Ab/G# Major is an A. So to cut a long story short when can you play a note that isn't in the current key and have it seem "right" in "Western style" scales? And what notes can you play in those times?
Hope that all of the above makes sense
Hope that all of the above makes sense
-
- KVRist
- 441 posts since 30 Apr, 2007
There are many possibilities that can lead to "right" note that isn't in the key signature. A few years back while doodling around on the keyboard, I ended up writing a little poppy song with chorus that had a progression like C - E - Am - F - G - C. Without really giving it any thought, I had played the E (or E7 really) with a G# instead of Em. Looking back at it, this choice makes a lot of sense. The G# is a leading tone which takes us nicely to the A in the next chord. If the piece were in A minor, it would be extremely common to see E7 - Am instead of Em - Am. We could possibly think of it as a temporary modulation to A minor and back to C major. This choice created a nice chromatic movement in the middle line from the G in the first chord, to the G# and finally to the A. This is a sort of thing you would see in classical music all of the time, and yet someone with just enough theory knowledge to get into trouble might convince himself that the G# cannot possibly be right.
So that touches on a few things that are very common, the raised note leading to a minor chord, and temporary modulation into a closely related key. But there are a lot of other tools that break out of the scale. Diminished seventh chords never fit the scale and yet are great for creating tension and possibly changing the direction of a piece (they can resolve to many different chords). Sometimes you can have extended chords where an unusual note may add color without changing the function of the chord (those "jazzy" harmonies). Blues often times seems to be halfway between major and minor.
So that touches on a few things that are very common, the raised note leading to a minor chord, and temporary modulation into a closely related key. But there are a lot of other tools that break out of the scale. Diminished seventh chords never fit the scale and yet are great for creating tension and possibly changing the direction of a piece (they can resolve to many different chords). Sometimes you can have extended chords where an unusual note may add color without changing the function of the chord (those "jazzy" harmonies). Blues often times seems to be halfway between major and minor.
-
- KVRAF
- 6385 posts since 8 Jun, 2009
Out-of-scale notes can work anywhere, but generally it's best when they're 'pointing' to the next one: so at the end of a phrase where there's a strong beat following and the accidental is a half-step away so it seems to lead to the next one.
With the right setup (assuming you're starting on a major scale), you can get all the notes of an octave into the chords of a passage and have it all sound natural. You can switch between the major and minor modes, which works very well in pop. You can use the chromatic mediant technique, which is the one that seems to have worked for Nystul: this is where you use the major in place of a minor for the (sub)mediant chords: E or A in C.
Then you have the secondary dominant, which is another handy technique for stepping out of a regular major chord progression. You'd use a D in the key of C for that (jt's the dominant of G).
The minor fourth (Fmin in C) gets used a lot for its soppiness in ballads.
There is also the Neapolitan sixth, which gets used less but is well worth looking at: it's basically the notes of F and Db in C. It works because you have two leading notes, so the Neapolitan sixth naturally slides into C major and so can stand in for a Bdim
String that lot together with a C major chord progression and you've used all the notes in the octave.
The trick is doing it in the right order. But you can use substitutions to get the chromatic mediants in, just try them in place of the Emin and Amin chords. The secondary dominant effectively stretches out a cadence: D->G->C (but you don't always have to do that).
Give 'em a try. They are not the only ways to step outside the regular key or scale.
With the right setup (assuming you're starting on a major scale), you can get all the notes of an octave into the chords of a passage and have it all sound natural. You can switch between the major and minor modes, which works very well in pop. You can use the chromatic mediant technique, which is the one that seems to have worked for Nystul: this is where you use the major in place of a minor for the (sub)mediant chords: E or A in C.
Then you have the secondary dominant, which is another handy technique for stepping out of a regular major chord progression. You'd use a D in the key of C for that (jt's the dominant of G).
The minor fourth (Fmin in C) gets used a lot for its soppiness in ballads.
There is also the Neapolitan sixth, which gets used less but is well worth looking at: it's basically the notes of F and Db in C. It works because you have two leading notes, so the Neapolitan sixth naturally slides into C major and so can stand in for a Bdim
String that lot together with a C major chord progression and you've used all the notes in the octave.
The trick is doing it in the right order. But you can use substitutions to get the chromatic mediants in, just try them in place of the Emin and Amin chords. The secondary dominant effectively stretches out a cadence: D->G->C (but you don't always have to do that).
Give 'em a try. They are not the only ways to step outside the regular key or scale.
-
- KVRAF
- 5524 posts since 5 May, 2007 from Mars Colony
See my post in the other thread started here recently:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 56#4340756
Basically the exact same topic but based around a specfic example.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 56#4340756
Basically the exact same topic but based around a specfic example.
"You don’t expect much beyond a gaping, misspelled void when you stare into the cold dark place that is Internet comments."
---Salon on internet trolls attacking Cleveland kidnapping victim Amanda Berry
---Salon on internet trolls attacking Cleveland kidnapping victim Amanda Berry