What is the deal with hifi freaks and the obsession with stereo image?
Some of my friends that are freaks are talking about the channel separation with everything from cables and converters to turntables. Even when they are talking about digital cables.
What's the deal? Some even claimed that some dvd and cd players have a output that is "nearly" mono? Hmmm...
They can't know much about digital audio.
In my opinion the chances of signal crossing over from the left side to the right side in a digital cable is as far fetched as claiming that the picture of one dvd could transfer to another dvd by them standing too close in the bookshelf. And if a piece of hifi equipment is wired so badly that they are nearly mono there is obviously something very wrong with the unit because of a weird error rather than someone trying to use as little money as possible in the production of a unit.
Of course there was a problem with channel separation when turntables were the norm, but I don't believe this is a problem now.
At least it's something that should be easy for manufacturers fix if there really was a problem.
What do you guys think?
Hifi freaks
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- KVRist
- 395 posts since 14 Aug, 2009
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 395 posts since 14 Aug, 2009
Bob Weyer speaker cables are known for good stereo separation.Meffy wrote:I use only genuine Bob Weyer speaker cables.
Also, magical wooden volume knobs and "shakti stones."
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- Skunk Mod
- 21249 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture
And for keeping cattle from roaming at large. Years come and go, yet the original Joseph Farwell Glidden design has proven every bit as good as the most expensive "audiophile" cables at conveying a signal to the speaker without distortion of any kind, and nobody denies it's far superior to any "monstrous" brands when it comes to livestock containment.
Google kvr audiophile for many previous discussions of the snake oil that self-annointed high-end audio connoisseurs* pay astronomical sums for, and think they're getting a good deal. "Thank you sir may I have another?"
[edit] * Typically elsewhere, not at KVR. People who deal with real audio engineering tend not to fall for pseudo-scientific audiophoolery.
Google kvr audiophile for many previous discussions of the snake oil that self-annointed high-end audio connoisseurs* pay astronomical sums for, and think they're getting a good deal. "Thank you sir may I have another?"
[edit] * Typically elsewhere, not at KVR. People who deal with real audio engineering tend not to fall for pseudo-scientific audiophoolery.
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- Skunk Mod
- 21249 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture
Just to make it explicit: Your CDs-on-a-shelf simile was about as perfect as it could be. I believe it describes the situation to a T.
Analog magnetic tape wound onto a reel "prints through" from one wind to the next. When working as a radio announcer and operator I was told always to leave tapes "tails out" --- meaning not to rewind after playing -- because the tape's take-up tension was regulated and small compared to the high, uneven tension during a high-speed rewind. If a tape spent a week rewound tightly, echoes and "pre-echoes" would be audible. So: tails out, always.
But digital doesn't work that way. If bleed-through from one channel to the other were possible it would manifest as noise, ear-shredding noise when a high-order bit got flipped the wrong way. But there is no such bleed-through. Even poor design wouldn't do it, you'd have to deliberately make it happen by malicious (in a way) engineering. Should be easy enough to simulate in software if you wanted to ruin your speakers/phones/hearing.
Analog magnetic tape wound onto a reel "prints through" from one wind to the next. When working as a radio announcer and operator I was told always to leave tapes "tails out" --- meaning not to rewind after playing -- because the tape's take-up tension was regulated and small compared to the high, uneven tension during a high-speed rewind. If a tape spent a week rewound tightly, echoes and "pre-echoes" would be audible. So: tails out, always.
But digital doesn't work that way. If bleed-through from one channel to the other were possible it would manifest as noise, ear-shredding noise when a high-order bit got flipped the wrong way. But there is no such bleed-through. Even poor design wouldn't do it, you'd have to deliberately make it happen by malicious (in a way) engineering. Should be easy enough to simulate in software if you wanted to ruin your speakers/phones/hearing.
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- KVRAF
- 21348 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from Gone
Although the transfer to digital media from the original analog source can sometimes transfer bleed through.Meffy wrote:But digital doesn't work that way. If bleed-through from one channel to the other were possible it would manifest as noise, ear-shredding noise when a high-order bit got flipped the wrong way. But there is no such bleed-through.
The first CD copy of White Noise 'An Electric Storm' that I bought had bleed-through on what was the second side of the original LP. I listened to it numerous times before I realized it was the tracks from the first side in reverse. It's weird enough without that thank you.
More recent copies are thankfully without the bleed-through.
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- Skunk Mod
- 21249 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture
Yup, whatever was on the original will be preserved faithfully when digitized. Too faithfully, maybe.
LPs can also have the echo/pre-echo when adjacent grooves (successive windings of one groove, really) are so close together they interact. The more music they cram onto an LP the closer together the grooves get, and of course bass has the big physical displacements so most groove-to-groove bleed-through is in the lows.
These effects can all be measured. I challenge anyone who believes in this supposed digital cable cross-talk to demonstrate its existence. Should be easy; by definition there is no ambiguity in digital signals so if it's there it's unmistakable. :-}
LPs can also have the echo/pre-echo when adjacent grooves (successive windings of one groove, really) are so close together they interact. The more music they cram onto an LP the closer together the grooves get, and of course bass has the big physical displacements so most groove-to-groove bleed-through is in the lows.
These effects can all be measured. I challenge anyone who believes in this supposed digital cable cross-talk to demonstrate its existence. Should be easy; by definition there is no ambiguity in digital signals so if it's there it's unmistakable. :-}
