I think I finally hate amp sims!

[Hink]

- It is almost impossible to know in a mix if the guitar has been recorded with real amplifiers or good software simulators with a good soundcard

On the contrary. Its all too easy to hear if its a real amp or ampsim. You immediately hear the static sound from ampsims. The harsch digital sound is something you can't get rid of either, no matter how much you tweak the EQ. The 3D is something you dont have with ampsims. A hardware amp blends well into a mix while with ampsims its not really possible to do that good enough.

Knowing that, now you can try again amplifier simulators, for what they are and not more, using good convertors, good studio speakers, and of course good amp sims, like the Vandal one I like a lot, or the very good free ones, as LePou / TSE and IgniteAmps plug-ins

Ampsims are nothing mor than ampsims. Of course they're better than nothing but they are what they are, a substitute for the hardware. A Trabant car is still a Trabant and not a BMW no matter how you try to disguise it as a BMW.

being someone who firmly believes there is a place for both (but I prefer to say all three because of Vandal and the way it does things so different to amp sims but so similar to amps) I can honestly say that I could record parts if so inclined that you would only be guessing which is which.

I cannot tell you how bad I feel for people who instead of thinking 'and' only see 'or'. The things we refuse to see, the things we refuse to accept all in the name of vanity (not aimed at you dubbleQ). This dude here plays the guitar, I do not play amps, I do not play amp sims...I play guitar. There is no better imo, just other methods, some suit my style better than others but I see them all as more choices.

Now blueman (Rich right? ) makes a point I said "preach on my brother", you can spend all your work time messing with this model and that model, this stomp or that stomp, this cab or that cab, this mic or that mic (or in the case of GR4 8 mics). THIS is why I mentioned Vandal because it's pretty much all right in front of you and you dial in a tone like you would with an amp and that eliminates the problem originally stated in this thread.

Here's the deal, sims allow me to go sonically where I could not afford to go to before. My tube amp (amps counting my Marshall pre) give me capabilities that the sim cannot but amps do have some significant flaws that could hurt the recording artist and for the live artist are suspect at best.

I have owned a lot amps, sold a lot of amps, tried a lot of amps and still have no use for any solidstate amp made except for the GK which is seriously dated (though this is not set in stone and a line six amp is the exception as is tech 21, however having a 4x12 and a power amp I can use a POD and do the same thing). Tube amps come with a bittersweet love/hate component...the power transformer, those with tube amps know that if you get too close your ax picks up the hum from the transformer, but that big massive transformer is also what helps the sound, but that big transformer can kill your sound in the case of a slight brown out or poorly wired venues. Yes this is a fact and I suspect where the concept of the variarc first came in, to maintain constant voltage.

Of the tube amps I have owned one was a 100 watt plexi that had what was then called the cali hotrod and I modded it with a master volume. I loved that amp, it was my baby for years...and then I changed the tubes. Shortly after I traded it for a boogie sob (my first sob). Not all tube amps sound the same even when they are the exact same model, this is awesome and a problem depending on what you are doing. If you decide to go to a song a month or two later to do a punch to fix one thing that is nagging you you might make it worse. You younger guys are spoiled because you do not commit to anything now but back in the day with tape once you made the change there was no undo.

Anyone who favors one 'or' the other to the point of 'never' are close minded, those who see sims 'and' amps as tools are open minded. It amazes me how many people (even those who I admire and respect a lot) only talk about what an amp or what a sim can't do...I think the key lies in what each can do and if you cant see that it's not because of the sim, the amp or any other factor than YOU.

[heffus]

Well put, Hink. As Mick Jagger once said, "Why are we fighting, why are we fighting?"

[dubbelQ]

Hink,(funny nickname becuse it means a bucket in swedish ) I agree with you that there's a place for everything. It all depends on what you want and what you are satisfied with. If someone is satisfied with their ampsims, good for them. Who am I or anybody else to question that. But to claim that a ampsim sounds as good as a real amp is another thing. After all a ampsim is a simulation and a simulation can't sound like a real amp or behave like one. What I'm against is all the marketing BS from devs who claim it sounds like the real amps they simulate. And some kids that haven't played a real amp will believe that bs and keep spreading the lies. I dont blame the kids but the devs. They should be straight and honest and say it is simulation that do sounds good and a good substite for real amps but shouldn't expect it to sound nor behave like a real amp. Peter from IK said that Amplitube is the software version of Axe Fx. Anyone can listen to clips on youtube and here that A3 doesn't even come close to Axe FX. He should just kept his fingers from the keyboard in that case. Its only a laughable statement.

[Vectorman]

You don't have to go through major option anxiety with guitar tones every time you start a new piece. Myself, I revisit certain guitar tones that I've saved as track templates in Reaper - one guitar line might have 3 or 4 tracks associated with it (if I'm double cabbing, there might be a track for a Marshall Greenback cab and another for a Celestion Blue cab or whatever so I can send the output from Amplitube to each, balance them, EQ the cabs separately, etc.).

Amplitube 3 is working out fine for me thus far, but 90% of the time I bypass its cab section and use Red Wire cab impulses - for my taste, I like them better in most situations than AT3's cabs, and it's convenient that they're all time-aligned so that you can combine impulses at will without getting phase issues.

I've contemplated getting something like an Emery Microbaby or the like before, since I think it's good to experience the real thing and decide for yourself how emulations stack up (much like I did with analog synths). From a practical standpoint, though, micing cabs would be a collosal pain in the ass. Maybe a good tube preamp run direct in tandem with the Red Wire impulses would be a good compromise to try sometime.

[xoxos]

it's like rollerblades vs. skateboards, except really about being right and where right comes from, which can be different at different times and places and people.

[chj]

it's like rollerblades vs. skateboards, except really about being right and where right comes from, which can be different at different times and places and people.

Rollerblades are a brand, they are inline skates FOOL!

[Hink]

Hink,(funny nickname becuse it means a bucket in swedish )

in every language it's part of my last name

I agree with you that there's a place for everything. It all depends on what you want and what you are satisfied with. If someone is satisfied with their ampsims, good for them. Who am I or anybody else to question that. But to claim that a ampsim sounds as good as a real amp is another thing. After all a ampsim is a simulation and a simulation can't sound like a real amp or behave like one.

re read what you wrote and see how drastically you changed course. Sounds as good as, sounds like and behave like are three different things. So which are you talking about?

Sounds as good? That doesn't ask the question that imo SHOULD be asked...three little letters 'for', "sounds as good for" "sounds good for" "doesn't sound good for".

Sound like a real amp? Define amp, in any definition I can find a amp sim is an amp when coupled with a computer (pretty useless without a computer). It is a real amp, a different kind but real my friend.

Behave like? Again I'm just going to say Vandal does an amazing job, you may disagree but like my point is above some don't behave like but behave in a different manner which some people do like. As you say who are you to question that, but let me just suggest to you that polarizing as you do only hurts you. No matter what it all is as subjective as it gets, why limit your options? You dont want to use sims don't, I know I wasn't onboard with the idea for a long time. However always keep an open mind because it's all right to change your mind.

This comes from a guy who swore tube amps only, no less than a half stack, analog only, tape only and bought his first computer this century. (before that I had moved to an HD recorder). This lesson I learned the hard way unfortunately, I refused to be open minded until...

What I'm against is all the marketing BS from devs who claim it sounds like the real amps they simulate. And some kids that haven't played a real amp will believe that bs and keep spreading the lies. I dont blame the kids but the devs. They should be straight and honest and say it is simulation that do sounds good and a good substite for real amps but shouldn't expect it to sound nor behave like a real amp. Peter from IK said that Amplitube is the software version of Axe Fx. Anyone can listen to clips on youtube and here that A3 doesn't even come close to Axe FX. He should just kept his fingers from the keyboard in that case. Its only a laughable statement.

I dont want models, I agree with that (yet again one more thing Vandal does differently)...I want tones, let me name them myself (really it's more defining a texture in my mind). I completely disagree with about ampsims sound and behavior...in this case your point should add 'for' again...'for you' as it were

[fateamenabletochange]

I'm getting my guitar sounds together currently. A journey indeed, all paths with limitations and work rounds.

Yes, I know where the OP is coming from, and so much of what I try with amp sims is fussily overcomplicated and sounds terrible.

I am also stuck like others with not wanting to make the noise that power amp, cab and mics brings, but miss the sound from speakers having an effect on vibrating strings.
Also, lifting my old 200 valvestate gave me a hernia and led to trying hardware modeling. Pod then AxeFx. Now trying a JMP1 preamp for the 'soul' that the valvestate had, but the AxeFx doesn't.

I'll try vandal. edit, when I have the money and time

[Hink]

I'm getting my guitar sounds together currently. A journey indeed, all paths with limitations and work rounds.

Yes, I know where the OP is coming from, and so much of what I try with amp sims is fussily overcomplicated and sounds terrible.

I am also stuck like others with not wanting to make the noise that power amp, cab and mics brings, but miss the sound from speakers having an effect on vibrating strings.
Also, lifting my old 200 valvestate gave me a hernia and led to trying hardware modeling. Pod then AxeFx. Now trying a JMP1 preamp for the 'soul' that the valvestate had, but the AxeFx doesn't.

I'll try vandal.

omg you're the only other person I know who got a hernia from an amp, I was putting my CS400 on top of my 4x12 (at the time I was running my Marshall 9000 tube pre amp with it, the cab was wired in stereo and down to 4 ohms). I hefted it up to my chest, went to put it on the cab and felt this horrid pain and I crashed to the floor...I lived with it for about a year and a half but had surgery in 2000 (which for me was pretty rough)

[fateamenabletochange]

no joke, the valvestate had two massive celestions in it, was lifting it into a shelf, up and extending out in front of me, and coughed.
I lived with mine for a while, it wouldn't stay back, was kind of 'big in the pants' there for a while Surgery and no problems since.

too funny, music related injuries

[futurefields]

BTW I'm only 51

Kids...........

I'm with Hink -- Vandal's my personal favorite, and I tend to do minimal tweaking with it. I make a few quick adjustments, and it's ready to roll. Really, it's "zee best" at the (and maybe any?) moment.

Except for the $200 asking price of Vandal I'd be inclined to buy a Pod or another hardware unit...............

And you'd be a fool for it. POD = old crap-ass software amps. In a hardware bean. "Fool me once... shame on... shame on..."

Same thing with the J-Station (old crappy software amps in a hardware box) "you fool me can't get fooled againd!"


Also, re: software amps not responding to dynamics, this is fundamentally incorrect. All the good software amps break up more the harder you dig into the strings. I know Vintage Amp Room, Amplitube, Guitar Rig, and Studio Devil do because those are the ones I've used. Whether you like the tone or not, they do react to dynamics.

In fact the POD amps that you apparently prefer are completely non-dynamic compared to the good modern sims. So, there's that. Maybe what you really like is processed, fake guitar tone.

Wow such hostility.....and from someone who is completely clueless and ignorant. Funny how hostility and ignorance so often go hand in hand............

Eh? What part did I get wrong?

Eh.........all of it.........

Actually, you are wrong, not me. You say you hate amp sims because they aren't dynamic enough. Yet you'd rather get a POD (static amp models) than Vandal (dynamic amp models). You aree entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts. Guess I made you feel dumb, which is why you ignored my actual points.

Also, I fail to see wheere I was so "hostile" ... maybe you think everybody that disagrees with you on solid grounds is being "hostile" ...

[trimph1]

They each have their uses...that is just it.

I find that both static and dynamic ampsims and amps can be used to play off of each other as well.

Sheeesh, I'll even muck the sound up by throwing stomp pedals into the sound mix if it comes down to it...

[Melkor]

Ive got a ton of amp sims, and i use different ones for different things .... but the only ones i enjoy PLAYING are the simuanalog ones. (tubescreamer into jcm900 is still priceless compared to other sims IMO)

Which, ironically, were among the very first ones i got my hands on waaay back, before recording through vst's at low latency was even an option.

[Acid Mitch]

it's like rollerblades vs. skateboards, except really about being right and where right comes from, which can be different at different times and places and people.

clearly skateboards rule . Rollerskates are for girls. All the binliners....sorry inliners do is spin around and stick there bum out

[Acid Mitch]

Hey Blueman. Overloud has released TH2. Surely that has to be the one ? hehe