How important is VST3 support for you as a customer

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How important is VST3 support for you:

I don't care about VST3
253
60%
I'd prefer VST3 plugins but would buy VST2 as well
133
31%
What the heck is VST3 and also fish
38
9%
 
Total votes: 424

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AdmiralQuality wrote: I'm amazed at some of the comments above. It seems some of you just can't believe that a big corporation would intentionally shaft you and sell you nothing but a bill of goods. There's universal consensus from the development community on this for a reason folks. Most of us aren't ok with the strategy of throwing away everything that was already well tested and working perfectly, adding a bunch of unneeded complexity for virtually no new benefit, then slapping on a new major version number and charging everybody to buy it yet again. But that's how these guys roll I'm afraid. I'm not "biased" by anything other than exactly this issue. Like I said, I love SX 3.1. I own several Steinberg products. But after this, probably never again. This is why we're so pissed off (most of us small developers are customers too, eh?)

I can just imagine the shitstorm I'd get from my customers if I ported my VST 2.4 product -- 4 and a half years of well tested code with currently zero bugs -- to VST 3. And if I then called it version 2 and forced them to buy it again? Oh man... :help:
Well, I see you're point and you are a consumer yourself also, I understand. But steinberg isn't charging anyone to use vst3.5, so that's just not fair. Maybe you don't like the new features in 5 (basically de melodyne like editing) or 6 (basically the new drum editing if you don't count vst3.5) but a lot of users DO, because it does add something.

The new melodyne does basically the same as version 1 only polyphonic.. you could say that it's no mayor feature as well, but IMO it's just as well a new feature as adding it to a program build-in or redesigning all of the drum editing. So it's basically just a matter of "what you use" and I think the drum editing feature is very usefull for any production that uses acoustic instruments. If you're not doing that you don't NEED to upgrade.

Anyway, I know very little about the differences between the SDK and haven't programmed myself for over 10 years. So I can only speak for the steinberg DAW users. But I do know that VSL and E.g. access (virus) do both vst3 and 2.4.

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aciddose wrote:
also have you ever used the "routing view" in a cubase channel? why did they add that, but then not make it possible to adjust the routing?
I have also wondered about this to be honest... But the routing in cubase is still pretty limited, you can't create feedback loops also for instance, while you can in live. I figured it would probebly have something to do with latency compensation why they don't allow it. (can't compensate a loop) but it's annoying if you want to create those dub like feedback sounds..

I have read that the routing in 6 would be slightly better though, but I don't know what changed. (havn't got 6 yet)

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AdmiralQuality wrote:I can just imagine the shitstorm I'd get from my customers if I ported my VST 2.4 product -- 4 and a half years of well tested code with currently zero bugs -- to VST 3. And if I then called it version 2 and forced them to buy it again? Oh man..
Actually... would this be so far-fetched ? Porting to VST3 would require a massive amount of code rewriting and testing, we all agree on that. Then would this be so unfair if you charged an upgrade fee to those customers who absolutely need VST3 ?
Last edited by Big Tick on Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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aciddose wrote: also have you ever used the "routing view" in a cubase channel? why did they add that, but then not make it possible to adjust the routing?
Routing view? In SX 3.x? Do you mean the VST Connections (F4) dialog? If so, yes I use that all the time because I have a 10x10 audio interface. (Edirol UA-1000, incidentally it comes with its own routing control panel and feedback loops are all too easy to create using that. :) ) On projects where I don't need all 10 inputs and/or outputs I'll often not even bother to create the extra connections, just to keep things uncluttered. And I've often set up things like (external, hardware) effects send and return channels in there.

But if you mean track routing, the source and destination for each track, displayed at the top of the mixer channels, yes, you use that to set up side chaining. (And yes, these are also displayed in the VST Connections dialog under the Group/FX tab.)

When you make a new track/channel in SX 3.x, you specify its input source and destination channel, displayed at the top of the track in the mixer, as well as the left side of the track (labeled in: out:) in the timeline view. Normally the only destination available is the master stereo bus as well as L and R only, but after you create group channels they will also show up as destinations on this list.

I'll show you exactly how to set this up. First you need a VST 2.x plugin designed for sidechaining. Let's find one we can demo...

Here we go, Cytomic, The Glue compressor. http://www.cytomic.com/products

1. Download and install The Glue. http://www.cytomic.com/trialdownload/Th ... WinVst.zip (See link above for links to x64 or OSX versions.)

2. Launch Cubase/Nuendo 3.x and create a new project. Note that under Plug-in Information you will now see The Glue listed as 4/2 under the "Nb I/O" column. This means it has 4 input channels and 2 output channels.

3. Add two stereo tracks and record or import some audio into them. Track "Audio 01" will be the signal (something loud and sustaining is best for this test, say a bass). Track "Audio 02" will be what we side chain (something punchy and percussive is best here, a kick drum is the classic example).

***** Side chain setup starts here... *****

4. Add a stereo Group Channel Track and name it "Side Chain".

5. Add a second Group Channel Track and instead of stereo, select More | Quadro. We'll name this track "Compressor". (Note that you MUST create these tracks in this order. Side chain group first, then the compressor group. This is because you can't route a Group to a more recently created Group.)

6. Go to the routing of track "Audio 01" and change its out: to "Compressor".

7. Leave track "Audio 02" routed to the master bus as normal (so we can hear the kick in our mix), however set up an Effect Send on it to send some amount of it to Group Channel "Side Chain". Make sure the send is enabled and has sufficient level (0 dB say). (And note that you could continue to mix other tracks into your side chain signal by also sending them to this group.)

8. You will now see in your mixer, that instead of a regular pan slider, you now have a square box for pan on tracks "Audio 01" and "Sidechain", as they're routed to a 4 channel (Quadro) destination. (You will also have a new "Surround Pan" control added to the left of the track in the timeline view.) Double-click either of these to get a detailed Surround Pan view, and pan "Audio 01" to center front, and "Side Chain" to center back.

9. Insert The Glue on group channel "Compressor". You're done setting up the side chain!

Now demo it, pick one of The Glue's presets where the EXT IN button is pressed (at the bottom) and you'll be side chaining.

To make a really dramatic ducking side chain, set this up in The Glue:
Threshold: -40
Range: Full
Makeup: 0
Attack: 1 ms (or whatever)
Ratio: 10
Release: .6 sec (or whatever)
Comp In: on
Mix: 100% wet
Peakclip In: off
Sidechain HP: 40
Ext In: on

So there's side chaining in a 6 year old version of Cubase with only VST 2.4. There are several more other products out there that do it this way as well.

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in other news about ever evolving Steinberg software technology is that 32/64 bridge in Cubase 5.5 is a little buggy in handling at least SE plugins unlike J-BRIDGE as reported by one of SE plugins developers
sometimes it's hard not to be an asshole © mellotronaut
you work so somebody can rest
Doing sound synthesis if organs is all you get, leave it alone

All Rights Deserved

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im really interested in getting a multiband side chain compressor for ableton live but as far as i know multiband sidecahining is only possible in vst3?? maybe theres some kind of work around you guys could help me with?

im really thinking of moving to cubase 6 and its vst3 support because of this feature as a lot of the artist i respect use this technique like mark knight and wolfgang gartner

also what other programs support vst3? does fl studio??

thanks for any help

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Look two posts above yours, sidechaining is possible even with VST2. Multiband or not has nothing to do with it.
Last edited by contrast on Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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well, if i understand things correctly, the "multibandness" part of sidechaining doesn't have anything to do with VST3 - it's just having several bands instead of one (as in multiband compressor vs standard compressor).
I don't know what to write here that won't be censored, as I can only speak in profanity.

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i know side chaining is possible in 2.4 but the reason i asked is that from what ive read that the waves c6 multiband sidechaing compressor only supports vst3

is this just waves being lazy and not making the effort to support 2.4?

are there any other multiband sidecahing compressors that work with 2.4?

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CaNeD wrote:i know side chaining is possible in 2.4 but the reason i asked is that from what ive read that the waves c6 multiband sidechaing compressor only supports vst3

is this just waves being lazy and not making the effort to support 2.4?

are there any other multiband sidecahing compressors that work with 2.4?
i believe that yes, they are lazy. there were some (payware) but can't remember which as i've never really used multiband comps. Google should help you though.
I don't know what to write here that won't be censored, as I can only speak in profanity.

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I firmly and sincerely believe that workarounds must only be temporary solution....
the cubase sidechaining as described IS a temporary workaround. If you ever see how sidechaining works with vst3 software you will realise that.

rsp
sound sculptist

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the developers of vst, steinberg do not support sidechaining in vst 2.4.....
they do in vst 3.....
some have found unintended workarounds to enable sidechining in vst 2.4... waves supports it in vst3 as intended and that makes them lazy?>
rsp
sound sculptist

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Despite some developers shouting otherwise, vst3 is here to stay.
Eventually the world will move on with or without them on board.
rsp

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zvenx wrote:Despite some developers shouting otherwise, vst3 is here to stay.
Eventually the world will move on with or without them on board.
rsp
Amen!

ugh, i mean Ahem!
sometimes it's hard not to be an asshole © mellotronaut
you work so somebody can rest
Doing sound synthesis if organs is all you get, leave it alone

All Rights Deserved

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aciddose wrote: also i think the poll is missing the "if the plugin is vst3 only, i won't buy it" option.
That's me

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