Silent Way -> M-Audio Ozone -> Volta Cable -> Moog Rogue CV input = Affordable DAW analogue glory?

[WilDFire]

Hi team. First of all I have to admit that I feel WAY over my head right now. I started today thinking I could find a cheapish MIDI -> CV Converter box to program by Moog Rogue via Logic and 12 hours later I realize that Silent Way should be the most affordable and easiest way to fire up my Rogue from my DAW.

I see on the Expert Sleepers that Guido Zen has accomplished this with the Moog Realistic, which is essentially a Rogue clone. I just wanted to throw this out though:

I found a very brief post on the M-Audio forum that states that all their interfaces have DC blocked and they do not recommend changing this. Thus, I take it they are all AC out, which means...

I will need to make a special cable. Feeling not confident enough in my soldering skills to do this, I would rather pay $15 for a cable here: http://www.slygoosecables.com/index.php ... t&Itemid=2

And then try the silent way demo to make sure it works.

Do any of you kind folks think this is a feasible plan?

Thanks in advance for you help!

[os]

Hello and welcome!

Sadly that plan won't work - the Sly Goose "Volta Cables" are simply jack cables with the ring unconnected at one end. They don't do the AC-decoding goodness necessary to use Silent Way AC Encoder.

But if you're willing to spend $15 a pop on cables (and you'll want at least two, for pitch and gate), I'd heartily encourage you to spend a little bit more on a half decent soldering iron and a few $ worth of parts. Soldering is really very easy - it's just glueing things together with a glue that you have to melt.

[WilDFire]

Thanks for the reply OS. I will clearly need to spend a few minutes (hours?) combing through the schematics on the expert sleepers forum to make sure I'm doing it right. But clearly it will be worth the time based on the significant number of satisfied customers

As you mentioned I will likely need 2 cables, one for CV and the other for gate - if my interface has a stereo out can I use the left channel for the CV and the right for the gate or will I need to get an expander of some kind?

Cheers,
Alex

[os]

Yes, you can use left for CV and right for gate.

[WilDFire]

Kickass! That's great news. I just need to get soldering then!

Cheers for all your help.

Alex

[WilDFire]

So I found this listed on doepfer's site for the rogue:

Controlling the Moog Source or Moog Rogue via MCV4

If you want to control a Moog Rogue or a Moog Source with the MCV4 (or any other Midi-to-CV interface) you have to pay attention to the unusual assignment of the jack sockets of these synths:

Rogue/Source CV input = ring of the CV socket or the inserted plug (i.e. not the tip)
Rogue/Source voltage gate input = ring of the trigger socket or the inserted plug
Rogue/Source S-trigger input = tip of the trigger socket or the inserted plug
As the MCV4 (and most other devices to) outputs it's CV at the tip of the CV1/2 socket one needs a special cable that connects the ring of the plug at the Moog side to the tip of the plug at the MCV4 side. E.g. a so-called insert cable could do this job (i.e. a cable with a 1/4" stereo plug on one side and two 1/4" mono plugs on the other side).

Does this mean that I can use an insert cable or Y cable, modified to do AC decoding on the audio interface side, and the two 1/4" mono plugs - one going to the CV input on the rogue (the ring of the CV) and the gate input (ring of the trigger)? I think I can leave the S-Trigger out alone...This way, if I think I understand (and I'm still not sure I do) then I will only need to mod one cable...I think I am just starting to wrap my head around this...Just need to wait for M-Audio to confirm why kind of output the stereo outs of the Ozone are - AC or DC...but hey! I'm learning a ton about this!

[os]

You can't use an insert cable, because they have mono (TS) jacks - you need two stereo (TRS) jacks at the synth end.

[WilDFire]

So here is what avid said when I asked tech support about the ozone:

Thank you for contacting Avid Technical Support.

Regarding your issue, It's an AC coupled output, not a DC control voltage output. They are grounded signal like a normal audio signal. Please use shielded cables because they are not powered out, but line outs. We have not heard of other users who tried what you are trying to accomplish. You may visit the forums for other user feedback.

Regards,
Avid M-Audio Technical Support

So I guess no soldering after all! Just two stereo to mono cables!

[os]

No - you still need to add the diode/capacitor for the AC conversion.

[messyandbarbaric]

This is my first time posting, have been lurking for a while and I finally bought the es-1 and am running into this same problem with the rogue. I cannot get it to work. Was there any resolve?
I have 2x xlr to ts cables going to the es-1 from my behringer ada8000 and 2x 3.5 adapters to a send and return cable going into the Rogue. I've tried various combos in the output matrix playing with plus and minus voltages from gate and/or trigger and can get the rogue to trigger a basic blip. Tried to calibrate using the voice controller and can only get a bleep towards the end of calibration. Tried inverting the signals too. I haven't tried the trim pots yet on the es-1 but figured the factory settings would be strong enough.
Because of the nature of strigger it seems like maybe there's an issue with ground? Can someone help? Thanks in advance.
Tyson

[os]

I have 2x xlr to ts cables going to the es-1 from my behringer ada8000

You'll want XLR to TRS. With factory settings that will give you about 4.5V out of the ES-1.

[messyandbarbaric]

I have 2x xlr to ts cables going to the es-1 from my behringer ada8000

You'll want XLR to TRS. With factory settings that will give you about 4.5V out of the ES-1.

I tried that initially, having to add gender changers and patch cables to make it work. I tested to see if the signal was indeed coming through but it still didn't work. Then I remembered reading somewhere that you had to let one of the leads (can't remember if it was sleeve or tip) hang free so I picked up a few of the xlr to ts cables.
I have to admit I'm a noob with cv and gate stuff but am slowly grasping it through experimentation. The strigger stuff throws me for a loop too.

[os]

Then I remembered reading somewhere that you had to let one of the leads (can't remember if it was sleeve or tip) hang free so I picked up a few of the xlr to ts cables.

That only applies if you're connecting an audio interface directly to a synth. If you're using an ES-1, you want a regular XLR-TRS jack (balanced) audio cable.

I think you need to take things back to basics. Connect up one channel of audio to the ES-1, and from there to the pitch CV input of the synth. Load up the Silent Way DC plug-in, and the AC Encoder plug-in. Enable the AC Encoder. Manually trigger the synth. Wiggle the knob on the DC plug-in. See if you can get the synth's pitch to respond.

If that fails, go out and buy a cheap multimeter, so you can measure voltages, without worrying about getting the connections to the synth right.

[messyandbarbaric]

Then I remembered reading somewhere that you had to let one of the leads (can't remember if it was sleeve or tip) hang free so I picked up a few of the xlr to ts cables.

That only applies if you're connecting an audio interface directly to a synth. If you're using an ES-1, you want a regular XLR-TRS jack (balanced) audio cable.

I think you need to take things back to basics. Connect up one channel of audio to the ES-1, and from there to the pitch CV input of the synth. Load up the Silent Way DC plug-in, and the AC Encoder plug-in. Enable the AC Encoder. Manually trigger the synth. Wiggle the knob on the DC plug-in. See if you can get the synth's pitch to respond.

If that fails, go out and buy a cheap multimeter, so you can measure voltages, without worrying about getting the connections to the synth right.

That's a great idea, I'll try that and let you know. Thanks for all the quick responses. I'm excited by the potential of this setup.

[spectreman]

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Hi team. First of all I have to admit that I feel WAY over my head right now. I started today thinking I could find a cheapish MIDI -> CV Converter box to program by Moog Rogue via Logic and 12 hours later I realize that Silent Way should be the most affordable and easiest way to fire up my Rogue from my DAW.

I see on the Expert Sleepers that Guido Zen has accomplished this with the Moog Realistic, which is essentially a Rogue clone. I just wanted to throw this out though:

I found a very brief post on the M-Audio forum that states that all their interfaces have DC blocked and they do not recommend changing this. Thus, I take it they are all AC out, which means...

I will need to make a special cable. Feeling not confident enough in my soldering skills to do this, I would rather pay $15 for a cable here: http://www.slygoosecables.com/index.php ... t&Itemid=2 (http://www.slygoosecables.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=493&category_id=36&keyword=volta&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2)

And then try the silent way demo to make sure it works.

Do any of you kind folks think this is a feasible plan?

Thanks in advance for you help!

I'm about ready to make cables to connect my M-Audio MobilePre to my Moog Realistic (Concertmate MG-1) for use with Silentway. Can you share the cable wiring (Tip of this to Ring of this etc) you used (assuming it was successful)? Also, anything you can share about which Silentway plugin you used and how would be awesome. Thanks!