accSone

Neon Breath · Post by **Neon Breath** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:55 am

Hey crushers,

I am not a very midi guy and my knowledge is a bit limited, though I know the basics. Here's my issue, I'm having problems with the midi learn and since my knowledge in midi not very deep, I'm kinda stuck. In other synths like Alchemy for example, as soon as I click midi learn on a parameter, I move one of my controller knobs and that param is automatically linked to that knob, easy, fast, that's it I can play and move the knob as much as I want to control the parameter. But in Crusher for some reasons, even if I midi learn click on a parameter and then move a knob on my controller, that parameter is not linked. I checked in the Crusher Control Assignments but still, I just can't figure out how to simply link a Crusher parameter to one of my controller knobs.

What am I doing wrong and missing? Any idea or a little tutorial for me? Would be very appreciated.

Thanks guys!

freq · Post by **freq** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:45 am

Neon Breath wrote: What am I doing wrong and missing?
Thanks guys!

MIDI learn function in crusher is exactly like you have in mind: Do the midi learn popup menu and feed the crusher with MIDI. Done! The link can be observed in the Assigment list. BUT: If the crusher does not get MIDI nothing can be learned: That could be because of the restrictions of the host (e.g. Logic) that even MIDI controlled effects (thats what the crusher AUs are) are not feeded automatically with MIDI data!

Here is the Thread that may solves your issue:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=297550

Best
Jörg

Neon Breath · Post by **Neon Breath** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:21 pm

Thanks Jörg. Hmmmm strange, it seems it should be quiet simple and straight forward indeed. Nope I'm with Live and I never had problem with midi learn with other synths like Alchemy or Albino, midi lean click--twist a knob et voila, done! Only Crusher doesn't seem to work for me that way, very strange

freq · Post by **freq** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:02 pm

Neon Breath wrote:Nope I'm with Live and I never had problem with midi learn with other synths like Alchemy or Albino, midi lean click--twist a knob et voila, done! Only Crusher doesn't seem to work for me that way, very strange

Sure, Alchemy and Albino are Software Synths that are used in a Software Synth track. They have only audio outputs and can't process Audio input! crusherX-Mac! is an Midi Controlled Audio Effect, that needs input audio (can be feeded by a software synths output, the audio on the track or live audio). The main idea of the crusher is that it needs audio input to perform it's sounds. The crusher is a kind of mixture of an effect and a synth. And it is only a limitation of the host that can't route MIDI directly to audio effects (without having it in a synth track).

One of the next ideas of a future crusher version is, that you can load sample files directly to the vapor buffer. With that feature crusher can behave like a pure synth (without the need of live audio on its inputs). In that version I will also provide a synth plugin that can be used "normaly" like other synths.

Jörg

Neon Breath · Post by **Neon Breath** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:34 pm

Yes Jörg I totally undertsand and aware that Crusher-X is an effect and it needs an audio input signal. My comparison with Alchemy or Albino was maybe a bad choice but still, with some other VST plugins that need audio input I use, the midi learn works. Maybe I should check more into my controller or even more into Crusher control assignments maybe I missed something, but I find pretty weird that the midi learn works for other plugins but doesn't work for Crusher. I'll dig and explore more...

Good idea with the sample files! This will add another great and huge dimension to Crusher

freq · Post by **freq** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:55 pm

Neon Breath wrote: I'll dig and explore more...

Yeah, let us know what you find out! You can check in the crushers assignment dialog if MIDI is coming in. If so, it will appear on the left upper side. If not, crusher can't do anything. It has to be feeded with MIDI by the host... I think in Live is an option to feed MIDI into the effect... I will check it out...

Jörg

Neon Breath · Post by **Neon Breath** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:56 pm

freq wrote:
Neon Breath wrote: I'll dig and explore more...
Yeah, let us know what you find out!
Jörg

Sure thing, will do!

Neon Breath · Post by **Neon Breath** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:15 am

Nope! Can't figure out how to make that Midi Learn works!

...I don't understand why it doesn't, since my controller works with any other plugins.

Jörg, do you have a way to test or verify this on a mac with Live?

freq · Post by **freq** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:01 pm

Neon Breath wrote:Jörg, do you have a way to test or verify this on a mac with Live?

Yes, I observed also that Live does not support MIDI routing to Audio Tracks (like in Logic).

And it is an known Live issue (http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=153750).

"And indeed; sending midi signals to audio tracks isn't supported."

Throw the crusher into a MIDI track everything is ok. As I said: It's a host problem. But I'm pretty sure that there will be a workaround in the future because MIDI-Controlled Effects are seldom but they're coming. The workaround mentioned at the end of the thread is pretty crude...

One partly workaround is to assign manually plugin parameters to crusher values and then assign in Live MIDI controllers to plugin parameters. Not a nice solution. And that would not enable the usage of a keyboard... I will keep my eyes open.

Yes, it seems that the crusher does again blows up categories...

Jörg

Neon Breath · Post by **Neon Breath** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:19 pm

Ok cool Jörg, thanks for the update on this. Pretty intresting info and thread.

Another workaround/fix that could be really cool and useful for quick automation could be like most other VST's (FX and instruments as well), when you click on a parameter in the plugin, to have that parameter selected and listed in the Live automation control chooser of the track that is running Crusher. You click on parameter you want to automate, then you see it listed with its name in the automation control list. That would be....

...Imagine all the quick automation possibilities in one click...

Thanks again for the support!

freq · Post by **freq** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:28 am

Neon Breath wrote:Imagine all the quick automation possibilities in one click...

Yeah, this touches again the idea of having all crusher params named and not assigned to a limited set of 32 params thru the assignment list. I have to make tests if that huge amout of params (could be up to 300) would'nt blow up any host. These side effects can't be underestimated. And that workaround doesn't solve the MIDI Keyboard issues...

Yes you're right, having the params "on a click" would be really user friendly... But, hey, is a Stradivari user friendly?

Jörg

Neon Breath · Post by **Neon Breath** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:21 pm

freq wrote:
Neon Breath wrote:Imagine all the quick automation possibilities in one click...
I have to make tests if that huge amout of params (could be up to 300) would'nt blow up any host. These side effects can't be underestimated.

Jörg

True, true. Crusher is a sonic monster!!!!

freq · Post by **freq** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:36 am

Here you find the quite simple solution:

http://www.accsone.com/content/view/936 ... g,english/

Same works for the windows version and crusherX-Studio! .

Jörg

Neon Breath · Post by **Neon Breath** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:18 pm

Fantastic!!!

Neon Breath · Post by **Neon Breath** » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:09 pm

freq wrote:Here you find the quite simple solution:

http://www.accsone.com/content/view/936 ... g,english/

Same works for the windows version and crusherX-Studio! .

Jörg

To confirm, it works wonderfully! Thanks for this, really cool.

accSone

KVR Audio

Midi learn?