KVR Audio

Lunatique · Post by **Lunatique** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:18 am

EDIT: Now that I've researched more, it appears it's down to between the Apple iPod Touch/iPhone 4, or an Android device. There are pros and cons to each, but at the moment the edge is going to the Apple devices. Here are the points I'm considering

Apple i-devices pros:

-Excellent full-featured DAW sequencers like Music Studio and NanoStudio. Android does not appear to have anything like that (except for maybe a tracker, which I can't stand).

-The more reputable companies/capable developers seem to choose the i-devices to develop for because it's already got market saturation.

-The iPod Touch is a unique device that doesn't have direct competitors in the Android world. This is great for people that don't need a phone in their smart device.

Apple i-devices cons:

-I'm not a fan of Apple's proprietary dictatorship in general as I'm a big supporter of open standards, and I don't like iTunes.

-I'm not a fan of Apple's many design decisions, such as not allowing custom EQ setting in their i-Devices (unless you make a custom EQ on your computer and then associate it with a specific track, and you must do this for every single track in your library), or not having a custom shortcut button like Creative Lab does with their Zen devices, or cannot delete tracks individually from the device (unless you hook it up to the computer), and many others.

-Battery is part of the device.

-Does not support Flash.

-If I want to have a GPS when I travel, then the iPod Touch won't do, but an iPhone 4 cost far more. I work at home and rarely go out, so an iPhone would be a waste of money for me.

Android devices pros:

-Open standard is a plus.

-More choices in devices.

Android devices cons:

-Lack of quality apps.

-Android devices aren't cheaper--in fact often cost more.

-Nothing really like the iPod Touch.

Considering that my original reason for considering a smart-device was to be able to compose music anywhere, it appears an iPod Touch is the best choice for me, despite of all the things I don't like about Apple and their design philosophy.

Are there other points I haven't considered?

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Original post:

I've been considering maybe getting an iPhone (and possibly iPad) or Android mainly to do composing while when I'm out and about, waiting for a flight, waiting for my wife, or when inspiration strikes and want to just hum a few lines of melodies or beatbox a drum pattern.

Currently, I have a tiny Olympus handheld recorder that I always carry in my messenger bag (which I take with me wherever I do), and I use it as a memo recording tool to remind myself of stuff, or hum/beatbox music ideas before I forget them. At home, when I have ideas but don't want to wait for the DAW to bootup, or I'm simply not planning on working on music that day but happened to have a idea I want to quickly record, I have a Zoom MRS-8 digital multitrack recorder, which has built-in condenser mic, instrument inputs, onboard effects, drum machine, track editing...etc. I use it as a rough demo sketch tool, to get the general idea for the composition/arrangement down. Then later, I'll basically re-record everything from scratch again in the DAW for higher fidelity, more time to perfect each performance...etc. While the MRS-8 can transfer files to the computer, and the sound quality is pretty good, I don't quite trust the quality of its DA/AD converters, so I never transfer anything from it.

I was thinking that I want a tiny multi-track portable recorder so that when I hum/beatbox ideas while out and about, I'm not restricted to just one track. The Zoom H4n and Boss Micro BR looked to be perfect for what I want. I could even use them at home to replace the Zoom MRS-8, since I really can't stand the ergonomics of the MRS-8--it's one of those products designed by engineers, not musicians, and completely unintuitive. But one problem is that while out and about and in public, like waiting for a flight, I'll disturb others if I started humming and beatboxing into a device, not to mention it'll be embarrassing as hell. So that got me thinking, what about iPhone and iPad apps for musicians? I know there are apps like sequencers, synths, drum machines, samplers, guitar/bass amp/effects...etc, but I have no idea just how much could really be done with them. For example, could I:

1) Export the MIDI files into my DAW and continue working on a project that started its life on a portable device?

2) How many voices can I get out of virtual sound modules on these devices? I don't expect anything fancy, since I know the processing power is low, but even if it's very simple synth and drum sounds, how many voices total is possible?

3) The onboard mic and DA/AD is likely not nearly as good as the ones on something like the Zoom H4n, but are they as least good enough so that if I happen to do a really good take on it and could probably never replicate the performance, I can still use the take and some effects in the DAW will make it sound good enough that no one would be the wiser? (This includes both vocal takes and instrument takes like recording a guitar, bass, or whatever through something like the IK Multimedia's i-Rig).

4) The battery life for these devices on paper is far better than any laptop/netbook, but when actually running music-making apps, how much juice do you really get?

And finally, how many of you are using these devices to make music? How do you feel about them? Are they cumbersome enough where one might as well just take a primitive handheld recorder and hum a few lines/beatbox some beats into it and then just do the actual track on the computer later, or are they intuitive and useful enough that you really can get a lot done on them and not feel totally crippled or all your efforts would have to be completely redone later on the computer anyway?

Lunatique · Post by **Lunatique** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:05 am

I just looked at a bunch of youtube videos of iPhone/iPad apps for making music, and it seems like the two best ones for all-in-one music creation solution are NanoStudio and Music Studio. They seem on par in terms of features, except NanoStudio is more electronic-music oriented using synths and sampler, while Msuic Studio's sound generation tools are more ROMpler based and many are emulating real instruments. I supposed I could get both since these apps are dirt cheap anyway, but I'd like to hear how from those who have used both how they compared in general (other than the stuff listed in their sales bullet points).

mindnoise · Post by **mindnoise** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:43 am

Lunatique wrote:I just looked at a bunch of youtube videos of iPhone/iPad apps for making music, and it seems like the two best ones for all-in-one music creation solution are NanoStudio and Music Studio. They seem on par in terms of features, except NanoStudio is more electronic-music oriented using synths and sampler, while Msuic Studio's sound generation tools are more ROMpler based and many are emulating real instruments. I supposed I could get both since these apps are dirt cheap anyway, but I'd like to hear how from those who have used both how they compared in general (other than the stuff listed in their sales bullet points).

Hi,
Yes Music Studio and Nano Studio pack quite a bit of power and features.

I have Music studio and it's great.

If you just need a audioo multitrack recorder check
Multi Track DAW by harmonicdog I own it too and the 'real life' DAW usability is awsome.

There is also RecTools by Yudo Inc. (which I own, too

) but the need to mixown before being able to exporting is a bit of a drag, Though this has also really nice DAW features like markers and EQ, Compressors.

best

Lunatique · Post by **Lunatique** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:36 pm

Thanks for the suggestions!

The word is that Music Studio is to going to get audio multi-track capability soon, so that means there's no need for a dedicated multi-track audio app.

BTW, I just edited the original post to reflect where I'm currently at in my research/consideration. So far it's looking like iPod Touch might have the clear edge.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:33 pm

After this comment from blipinteractive (creator of Nanostudio):

http://forums.blipinteractive.co.uk/node/1589

"Gingerbread seems to add a new API which is potentially capable of improving latency, yet from all reports it seems that this potential has not been realised. What this means is a large delay between touching the screen and hearing the response. I think this is why most existing Android music apps seem to be based around step sequencing."

.. I highly recommend NOT buying an Android phone/device for creating music on the go. Until they take latency seriously it is of no real use as a realtime instrument.

Cheers!
bManic

Lunatique · Post by **Lunatique** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:09 am

That's very helpful--now I know why there's a lack of real-time composing apps on the Android platform.

I guess as far as musical needs, the iPod Touch's got me covered just fine. I almost couldn't think of more that I need from it.

As far as the non-music-making gripes I have, I guess that's the compromise I have to make. Does anyone know workarounds for these iPod Touch issues?

-Getting GPS through a third-party solution? I read there might be one.

-I once saw a guy with a portable wifi device, which was running off of what's essentially a cellular service signal, so that means his iPod Touch can always have wifi access whenever/wherever, as long as there's cellular signal. That also means the iPod Touch can then make phone calls via Skype.

-The lack of intuitive custom EQ is a glaring problem. It's always been a problem with Apple's devices and they seem adamant about not changing that.

-Lack of ability to organize and delete media on the device. Must connect to computer to do it.

ford442 · Post by **ford442** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:34 am

i find that the Touch has a nice sound overall - i don't miss having EQ - i just use bass-freq earbuds to boost the lows.. the integrated battery is ok because it lasts all day and charges fast - i calculate that it will have outlived its usefulness by the time the batt expires.. i agree that the file handling is a bit nutty - likely a result of Apple trying to prevent people from sharing their libraries freely with other pods.. but, i love my touch and i enjoy using NanoStudio to jot down ideas.. there is a generation 5 coming this year - not sure how soon, i might check on that for you..

ford442 · Post by **ford442** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:37 am

ah - looks like all the way to september for 5g Touch..

siriusbliss · Post by **siriusbliss** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:52 am

Does Android have MIDI yet?
What kind of ports do the Android devices have?

G

Lunatique · Post by **Lunatique** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:37 am

But until Android actually have fully featured DAW sequencing hosts like NanoStudio or Music Studio (as opposed to trackers, which I don't care for), Android isn't really a viable option.

Dewaine · Post by **Dewaine** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:06 pm

IMHO there is no real advantage to an "open" device. I have an iPhone 4 and an iPad. I do not feel limited with 240,000 plus apps to choose from. They are easy to get accessories for, you don't have to fool around with SD cards (cloud computing is the future) and have a massive user-base (which means they are well supported).

I am a windows guy (i hate OSX, and love Windows 7), but in the mobile world IMHO Apple rules.....

In a month I will have had my iPad for a year, the best tech purchase I have made since the Commodore 64. It replaced a netbook, Nintendo DS lite, and a Sony ebook reader (I have sold all three). Plus I can make tunes on it

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:11 pm

Android user here - certain capabilities were a must, so I had to - and I recommend that if it's music making you want, go with a McDevice of some kind. There's no real light at the end of the tunnel for android music right now, a sentiment echoed by the dev of TouchOSC when he said that developers don't think anyone will pay for apps on Android.
Not true, of course - if someone would develop them, I, and hoards of others, would happily pay for them; but perception is everything in this day and age. If that's what the devs think, it's just not going to happen.

ObiWonder · Post by **ObiWonder** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:03 am

Lunatique wrote:But until Android actually have fully featured DAW sequencing hosts like NanoStudio or Music Studio (as opposed to trackers, which I don't care for), Android isn't really a viable option.

The Android OS cannot handle the low-latency audio requirements for an app like AmpliTube. Until Android can fix that I don't think it will have a big music app market place.

cytone · Post by **cytone** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:15 am

Here's the developer issues thread for Android low latency audio.

http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=3434

Google really messed up by not including this in the device specs.

shanecgriffo · Post by **shanecgriffo** » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:17 pm

i have an iphone 3gs and really you wont go wrong with the apple mobile stuff
yes itunes is annoying but you can bypass (mostly) it once you've set up your account and download apps straight (via wireless) to your device.
The ipod touch is pretty inexpensive and i'd buy one straight away if my iphone got lost. i do probably equal amount photography/music and it's a lot of fun, tho i just tend to use stuff like digidrum, beatmaker and pro looper etc more than nanostudio etc.. just fun stuff really, to bang away on on the bus. The sequencers i find a bit fiddly for detailed work, i just use them for real rough ideas til i get home to ableton/reaper.
I reckon i'll try save for an ipad2 a bit later in the year!

Choose between iPod Touch/iPhone 4 and Android devices?