Arranging an alt7 chord for 4 voices

[neueliteratur]

Hello,

In the C7(9#,5#) chord, you've got 5 notes.

C E G# Bb D#.

I am writing a SATB thing.

I know I should keep C E D#.

I hesitate between G# and Bb. Which is "more important" than the other?

Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

[cryophonik]

That's a tough one, but I would argue that the G# is probably more important than the extension (Bb), because it defines it as an augmented chord, rather than an extended major triad. But, as always, context is everything. What does it sound like when played in the context of your song? What chords/voicings precede and follow it?

[tapper mike]

Won't work if you are using all of them in a 4 note chord.
A 5 note chord will work. 1-7-3-b13-b9 That's how I (a jazz guitarist) would play it. However you don't have to play the entire voicing.

....and if you are playing behind a soloist you don't want to crowd the same register as they are performing unless you drop your perfomance levels considerably.

[llatham]

Hello,

In the C7(9#,5#) chord, you've got 5 notes.

C E G# Bb D#.

I am writing a SATB thing.

I know I should keep C E D#.

I hesitate between G# and Bb. Which is "more important" than the other?

Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

Is it a cappella?

Actually, the root is probably the least important. Is it implied through context (or can it be played by another instrument)?

For example, a lot of 12 bar progressions use a 7#9 chord on the V or the last V in the turnaround - in that position it would be pretty clear that you were implying the root to be C if the blues were in F.

The next least important would be the 3rd - again if the context implies it strongly - I know part of the "sound" of the 7#9 is the "clash" of the 3 and b3 (#9) together but if it's already implied by the key then the natural 3 can be done away with. In fact, the overtone of a low C may be prominent enough to help imply it (or make the listener perceive it).

Another option could be in you're writing - you could "stagger" the Bass part like:

C-E C-E and put the rest of the chord over the E note like "hits" so you get this "bass-chord" pattern where the bass note doesn't sustain, but by virtue of our having just heard it, we retain it in our aural memory.

Steve

[dementia13]

Agreed, the C is actually the one you probably should leave out. It could depend on the context, what chords come before and after. Smooth voice leading might be more important than having every note played. Theoretically, a 9th chord is usually treated as a 4-note instead of a 5-note chord, with the 9th substituting for and taking the function of the root. A pianist or guitarist will often leave that root out, and leave it for the bass to play. Leaving the root out won't break the chord, depending on how it fits into the progression.

[jlocri]

I am writing a SATB thing.

Well if you're doing a SATB thing, you could probably use it in context with suspensions and accented appoggiaturas. It just requires some chromaticism and 4th species-like movements.

I hesitate between G# and Bb. Which is "more important" than the other?

Why not both? It's common in a lot of classical and jazz music, where SATB is used most extensively, for chord tones to not appear until the second or third beat of the bar. All it takes is a good intuition about harmony to imply this chord.

If you don't wish to use SATB voiceleading, just have the extra notes appear in accompanying instruments and pick whichever voicing sounds best to you.

[psenior]

Typically, I would get rid of the root note of the chord first. After that, my next choice would be to get rid of the fifth note of the chord. But this is just generic advice.

As to which note is more important; ideally, within the context of your composition, your ears will answer that question for you.

[neueliteratur]

Thank you people!

It always comes down to listening carefully and trusting my ears.

[RyanG]

Couldn't you just set one of the voices in divisi so you can use all the chord tones? Or are there restrictions?

[jancivil]

Hello,

In the C7(9#,5#) chord, you've got 5 notes.

C E G# Bb D#.

I am writing a SATB thing.

I know I should keep C E D#.

I hesitate between G# and Bb. Which is "more important" than the other?

Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

as a very general rule o' thumb: the third and seventh are the essential components you least want to omit in jazz harmony. The fifth when perfect is the first one to punt (unless obviously there is a bassist who's expected to supply root all the time).

this one is less obvious, and depends on context, what happens before, what happens next. Both G# and Bb might dissolve to A in the next harmony (I'm a big proponent of 'voice leading rules ok'; I'd have to know 'why' there's this particular harmony).

Since you can't have all five components present at the same, you can get either one of these as if a 'non-harmonic' or passing etc kind of tone, so it's kind of a matter of taste as to which works best emphasized rhythmically IME.

Omitting the root there might result in an ambiguity (E^7b5) you like or don't like, depending.

[jlocri]

as a very general rule o' thumb: the third and seventh are the essential components you least want to omit in jazz harmony.

That's only for guitarists or when you're arranging music for a guitarist, iirc. Otherwise, the horns are expected to at least outline each note of the chord (except maybe the fifth). In a jazz band, guitarists are only meant to back the music instead of help form the music, sort of like what a pad does in trance or house.

My very personal opinion is that halfstep shouldn't be using this chord if he needs to ask how to use. Extended chords are great when they're just from dissonance or chromaticism, but they're a little awkward when you force them into your music just because. They're something that should happen naturally to the songwriter. Seventh and maybe straight ninth chords are a little more forgiving, especially if the added note is in the upper voices, but his chord isn't very straightforward. It's downright crazy.
But hey, that's just my 2cents.

[neueliteratur]

Thank you people.

[tapper mike]

That's only for guitarists or when you're arranging music for a guitarist, iirc. Otherwise, the horns are expected to at least outline each note of the chord

No, it applies to any instrument that can produce four or more note voicings.
Extended Chords with full voicings can create undue clutter and work against melodies an harmonies expressed by other instruments.

[jancivil]

as a very general rule o' thumb: the third and seventh are the essential components you least want to omit in jazz harmony.

That's only for guitarists or when you're arranging music for a guitarist, iirc. Otherwise, the horns are expected to at least outline each note of the chord (except maybe the fifth). In a jazz band, guitarists are only meant to back the music instead of help form the music, sort of like what a pad does in trance or house..

sez you, who I think doesn't know really. I speak of these things from experience.

[jlocri]

sez you, who I think doesn't know really. I speak of these things from experience.

How's 4 years in a jazz band that has played over seas for experience? I was the guitarist, by the way.