Slate Virtual Console Plugin is now available

[Slate]

No offence slate, but why on earth have you sent out an email to people who already have the beta saying 'Hey come buy this great plugin', and not sent them the download link for the actual finished plug? Smacks of Dumb to me...

Hi there, I thought that current customers know that updates are always available in their USERS area account

So whenever you see an announcement of an update, know that logging in to users will get it to you.

Its refreshing to hear that people here are not having that many early bug issues.. I have none on my Windows and Mac RTAS machine.. but the bugs that have been reported are being fixed all weekend.

NEKRO: Nick Stokes has nicer hair then I do. I'll work on it!

[Dominus]

Had this in the other thread without seeing a response. You posted this on GS:

Now, the problem is with guys on PPC. The newer ilok will not work
with PPC Macs. So we think the fair thing to do is to offer you a
50% refund ($99), or you can take the free ilok and assume that
you'll be updating to an Intel Mac sometime in the near future. The
choice is yours. We know this is a bummer, and I wish there was some
other way, but there just isn't.

And I posted this here:

Not that I'm one of those people, but anything less than a full refund would be considered theft in my eyes. These people weren't paying for development. They were paying for a product.


As for me, I've got an iLok, absolutely hate it, and will not buy any more iLok protected software, especially in the area of mastering plugins where there are multiple alternatives. For that kind of stuff, it's not the plugin that matters, it's how you use it.

Just wondering if that was still your policy.

[NAS]

Its been called one of the most anticipated plugins of the decade.

Love that line hahahahaha
Kind of reminds me of the people who tell you how much CPU percentage something is using and don't tell you what CPU hahahaha

[Colonel Flashback]

love that line as well. for the record, its also been called "snake oil by scammer guys"...

[odd]

so, um... does this thing sound any good?

Yes. Very.

Can you please go into any detail? Do you prefer it to Nebula (AlexB)?

[Compyfox]

Aw not this discussion again...

[bmanic]

so, um... does this thing sound any good?

Yes. Very.

Can you please go into any detail? Do you prefer it to Nebula (AlexB)?

I don't own any of the AlexB products so I can't directly compare it to that but when listening to the examples Alex has posted I'm not exactly fond of the results. They are too subtle in my opinion but I think it is a limitation of Nebula rather than Alex's samples.

Having a little bit of experience in large to medium format consoles I can guarantee you that when driving the channels it doesn't sound subtle at all, not even remotely subtle. Stuff gets squishy, squashed and quite dull/dark (depending on the desk).. loses a lot of impact. This is exactly what happens in the Slate VCC as well if you drive it with a hot signal (try a drumloop into the SSL 4k mixbus at +12dBFS and you'll see it go completely squishy).

I think one of the problems is that nebula can not do instant compression/clipping which is basically what happens in a console when it is pushed. Same issue as the one with tape.. so you are losing a whole part of the experience.

The subtle coloration and "realness" in the AlexB nebula examples of a console is very evident though and it clearly improves the overall signal.

Slate VCC does this as well. I am of course not sure how accurate it is to the real desk but frankly I don't really care. To me the only important thing is the end results and it is impossible for me to try to pretend that the VCC doesn't drastically change the way I mix, because it does. Is it a revolutionary plugin? In my opinion, yes. Will it make everybody mix better? Is it the "magic" tool that turns crap into gold? No, of course not.

What I like so much about the VCC is that we have 4 very different sounding options to choose from, at the twist of a virtual knob. This is impossible to do with Nebula. It's amazing really, especially if you have setup all your various channels and groups properly so that they all switch together. It's a plugin that will take quite a while to get used to and learn how to use at it's full potential. Driving it hard or soft will drastically change the sound coloration and dynamics as well.. and I'm not talking about Nebula levels of subtlety, no. You can very clearly hear the difference.

I highly recommend trying out the demo if you can get hold of an iLok2 and don't mind that copy protection. You'll also need to have a fairly powerful computer to get the most out of the plugin. It does eat up a lot of processing power but I'd rather have this be the case than compromised sound quality. Computers get faster all the time so..

I'll see if I can post some before/after examples as well during the coming weeks.

EDIT: I forgot to add that Slate VCC and Nebula console samples can definitely complement each other. I still think Nebula has a slight edge when it comes to the "realness" factor. Stuff just sound more real, 3D and hardware like when it's handled with Nebula but there are too many limitations when it comes to dynamics that you loose the actual performance of whatever it is you are sampling. This is where VCC can help. Combining the two can give you best of both worlds (or be total overkill). May God have mercy on your CPU!

Cheers!
bManic

[trimph1]

Aw not this discussion again...

Yes...anytime Slate is mentioned...here we go again...

[odd]

bManic, thanks for that elaborate reply.

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

nevermind

[Compyfox]

@Zaphod (giancarlo):
Please enlighten us with your input. We went down that route already, might as well go full cycle.



@bManic:
Thanks for the comparision. One "strange" thing I encountered with using VCC myself is with the use of the buss plugin.

The individual channel plugins are for the input gain stage, no? If I didn't misunderstand the concept, you put the plugin on the very first slot, have the fader at unity and dial in a proper input gain value so that you barely hit 0dBFS (if we're in an ideal world). Though I think the input knob on VCC has a different purpose - more saturation compared to compensating a gain loss, the drive actually enhances that effect.

The next thing you'd normally do is add your EQ/compression, send FX, mix as desired and then run everything through the VCC BUSS plugin on the master bus. Now while testing beta2 (iLok1 - can't speak for recent versions) I encountered a strange behavior and I don't know if I did something wrong on the long run or not.


Let's say you have everything set to default in terms of gain, use the 4k Console (which is the SSL 4k), setup the buss plugin to 4k as well (or whatever console you desire as endresult).

Here's the thing:
1) If I mixed all channels so that the master out (stereo mix bus, VCC MIX BUSS plugin on slot 1) barely peaks at -1dB, I barely overdrive the VCC bus plugin. The individual channels reside mostly between -20dBFS and -12dBFS max, since the mix is adding up of course. IMO not ideal, especially with using digital mixing desks like the BCF2000.

2) If I mix with all faders up (aka as loud as possible), I overdrive the VCC MIX BUSS of about +6dBFS to +12dBFS. Depending on the desk, this more or less sounds great (headroom) or not (the Brit N tended to distort way before +6dBFS with beta2 ilok1). To get down to the desired output level of -1dBFS again, I either have to mess with the master fader (which some consider a no-no), or a post VCC MIX BUSS gain compensation plugin (also a no-no). But you have an overdriven sound!

3) Same as 2, only that I put a gain compensation plugin PRE VCC MIX BUSS, which results in the same sound behavior as with point 1. Only that the gain plugin is overdriven (doesn't matter with internal 32bit float processing anyway - but still).


Now here's the thing I encountered:
I rendered all three versions and compared them with a clean non-VCC (aka VCC bypassed) version through the "null test" (aka phase inverted). InspectorXL and the PMM only gave me readouts at about -80dBFS to -75dBFS - and depending on the version (1 - fairly clean, 2 - overdriven VCC, 3 - overdriven gain plugin pre VCC) I got different "EQed" artifacts (1 and 3 basically highend only, 2 also artifacts in the 250-500Hz range).

I'm wondering if I actually used these plugins correctly. -80dBFS sure is subtle compared to a non-VCC altered mix.


Since you're experienced with large desks and had the chance to 1:1 compare VCC, Nebula and an analog console - what would you advice in terms of using Slate's creation to those that usually don't have access to a large desk. (I know, this is somewhat a "how to mix best" question - though with a twist, and still product related!).

Thanks in advance.

[Slate]

Compyfox, I would recommend just slapping the VCC Channels on the first inserts, putting a mixbuss plugin on the master fader, and then mixing normally. If you do a mix this way, then bypass all VCC's, you'll hear that the plugins will add the console vibe without having to worry much about it.

By the way folks, we'll have an update in the users area on Tuesday that fixes some out of the gate issues that some people had, mostly on Mac RTAS.

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

compyfox, bmanic just said he didn' test/buy any of the consoles. I posted that, but I removed the reply because it was a bad reply, harsh, while bmanic on the other side tried to reply politely as he could.

I try to explain it in the best english I can.
All slate threads are full of nebula OT, I think it's better if you open a comparison thread, like the one in gearslutz. Imho it's unfair someone explains what nebula is capable or not (for example this instantaneous compression thing, which is not completely true any more) and we can't reply without starting a fire. Things are even worse when comments are generated by people who didn't buy those libraries (but based on audio demos).
A client asked privately an oversaturated console coming from his own gear and we provided a 20 kernels emulation which is not completely perfect but NOT subtle at all (audio is completely destroyed by it). For sure alessandro is interested in high-end consoles, tuned till perfection, and here his work. CDsoundmaster is providing completely different items (less subtle), and so analoginthebox (you'll never find something subtle coming from analoginthebox). A new developer, signaltonoize is releasing things which have a strong tone. All of them are more or less providing preamp/console emulations, and here I stop.

[bmanic]

compyfox, bmanic just said he didn' test/buy any of the consoles. I posted that, but I removed the reply because it was a bad reply, harsh, while bmanic on the other side tried to reply politely as he could.

I try to explain it in the best english I can.
All slate threads are full of nebula OT, I think it's better if you open a comparison thread, like the one in gearslutz. Imho it's unfair someone explains what nebula is capable or not (for example this instantaneous compression thing, which is not completely true any more) and we can't reply without starting a fire. Things are even worse when comments are generated by people who didn't buy those libraries (but based on audio demos).
A client asked privately an oversaturated console coming from his own gear and we provided a 20 kernels emulation which is not completely perfect but NOT subtle at all (audio is completely destroyed by it). For sure alessandro is interested in high-end consoles, tuned till perfection, and here his work. CDsoundmaster is providing completely different items (less subtle), and so analoginthebox (you'll never find something subtle coming from analoginthebox). A new developer, signaltonoize is releasing things which have a strong tone. All of them are more or less providing preamp/console emulations, and here I stop.

There are plenty of demo programs from Alex that I have downloaded, all of them are very subtle.

I'm sure that a 20 kernel program would sound wonderful but running multiple 20 kernel programs of Nebula simply isn't at all desirable nor practical. I just finished an album which has an average track count of around 70 tracks per song. Using VCC it was quite easy to get quick results which I could change in an instant. I am all for sound quality and the most meticulous modelling but in the end it doesn't matter at all if the process can't be used due to CPU limitations or usability issues (being able to switch consoles of assigned groups, at the flick of a virtual knob, is a BIG deal).

In the end, only the final results matter. Nobody should care how or what was used to create the song/mix. Only how it sounds. We are magicians, illusionists so all this gear pimping is rather silly. Personally I don't care which plugin is better or worse. I only care about results and right now I have to say VCC delivers. Yeah, I know I used to think otherwise but after a few large scale projects with REAL dead-lines (dead as in "Game over man!!" dead) I have had to rethink my attitude.

Cheers!
bManic

[bmanic]

Compyfox, I would recommend just slapping the VCC Channels on the first inserts, putting a mixbuss plugin on the master fader, and then mixing normally. If you do a mix this way, then bypass all VCC's, you'll hear that the plugins will add the console vibe without having to worry much about it.

By the way folks, we'll have an update in the users area on Tuesday that fixes some out of the gate issues that some people had, mostly on Mac RTAS.

That's one way of doing it for sure.

I noticed that I used VCC more as a creative tool than just an emulation of a mixing desk. Once I identified/learned the sound of the various models I found myself piling up channels into larger mixbus groups.. but only material that I truly wanted to get the treatment.

It seems that part of the secret to get a truly "3D" sound stage is all about contrasts. Keeping some VSTi synths/digital sources completely clean and "sterile", at the front of a "warm and gooey" backdrop (which has been heavily processed with either outboard gear or some emulations) will have a much bigger impact on the whole picture than just processing everything uniformly or not processing anything at all.

I also noticed that AUX channels, especially reverbs, can benefit tremendous amounts from the VCC plugins. I slapped a VCC channel on reverbs and combined these channels into a bus where I had the VCC mixbus. The important part is to drive them quite hard so I insert a gain plugin before any VCC plugin and hit it with +12 or even +24dB of gain. I then compensate afterwards. The whole thing comes nicely together when you have a few reverbs that do not get any additional "console" or any other type of processing. I usually left the short ambience type reverbs without processing, especially if they were quite prominent in the mix (because the elements going to these reverbs are already processed).

Anyhow, my point was that just because the VCC channel is meant to be an emulation of a console it would be a pity to only use it in that way. The beautiful thing with computers and instant full recall of settings is that we can experiment a bit and "abuse" stuff quite easily.

Cheers!
bManic