Slate Virtual Console Plugin is now available

[Zaphod (giancarlo)]

Giancarlo:
I know that such threads usually drift into Nebula OT discussion/bashing, which is a pity. Each tool has their own strong points and weaknesses. Won't go into that here, but I was just curious since that old drama came up once more.

Wouldn't 20 kernels eat a lot of CPU power and be totally impractical in a 32+ channel mix (plus FX channels and groups)?

true, I don't like digressions very much. No it was based on microkernels, so it was a light emulation (you'll find many of them soon). I proposed microkernels to alexb but he found less precision and he didn't like the result very much (he found it very "processed-plugin-like" in terms of sound).

I prevent your next question: here we should understand what a developer is trying to achieve. Alexb is trying to recreate perfect high end consoles with a minimum impact on the overall balance of the mix, like a sort of audiophile research. He is sampling consoles after tuning them, changing bad components and so on. I agree on what bmanic is saying: at the end of the day you are looking for the sound and workflow, you don't care if it's the closest emulation of a pure ultra-tuned gear or not when you are trying to mix. Sometimes it's better something more obvious. Sometimes not. Like you said, each tool has their own strong points and weaknesses. I didn't test vcc but I think it's a good tool.

If you have other questions I suggest to open a topic or to contact me or alexb directly.

[Compyfox]

Thanks for the offer, Giancarlo. So far I'm pretty much happy. But I'll get back to you should I have further questions.

I only mentioned these large input numbers because I was talking about reverb channels. They usually are much lower in volume. The trick is to get those channel peaks slightly over 0dBFS. The difference between doing this and letting them sit at -20 or even -30dBFS is massive, especially if you run a lot of reverbs.

So, you generally use a gain plugin on slot 1, VCC Channel on Slot 2, a gain plugin (compensation) on slot 3, and on slot 4 and 5 the reverb and an EQ.

But wouldn't you have to constantly mess with the input gain and the compensation, since send reverb adds up the more you mix? On top of that, wouldn't the input gain knob do the same as a gain plugin pre-VCC Channel?

This would also cover my Q whether or not Steven and you utilize the input gain knob to "level in" the source signal before further processing.

And another thing... is a saturation of your desired desk with +1dB really enough already? (well, seeing as the Brit N had a +4dBFS headroom limit, it shoulld be more than enough)



@Steven:
You see, I'm not the only one asking for a hands-on video. So making one would definitely be great.

Maybe you could cover everything I asked with my last post?


Regarding the User Account... I was among the first beta testers as well and never got a user account either. Nor was there a discussion section for the plugin. I contacted the support, pretty responsive so far.

[Slate]

I'll be doing more video on actual use for sure. I'm even trying to do a song that could be made public in multitrack form so people can download the entire session.

Anyone who purchases from the slate digital shop gets a receipt with USERS area info, but its possible that it might not be clear enough, so we will figure out a way to make it more clear.. perhaps putting it in another follow up email rather than the same one that gives the user the ilok redeem codes.

If anyone else has issues, then please contact support.

[tman2k (Meathook Audio)]

I'll be doing more video on actual use for sure. I'm even trying to do a song that could be made public in multitrack form so people can download the entire session.

This sounds like a great idea! Looking forward to it...

On a side note, what shipping method are you using to ship the iLok's (to Canada)...bought this, but can't use it yet until my iLok arrives!

TIA!

[Compyfox]

Looking forward to the videos, Steven. An ETA on that mayhaps?

And out of curiousity, do you utilize the "Input Gain" knob? And if so, in what content? (aka, level in signal, or just for a "specific sound", or do you rather use the drive for that purpose?)


I'm just curious...

[yorolpal]

Posted also in another thread...

I just saw an ad from FrontEnd Audio that purported to offer Slate Digital VCC "expansion packs" for $50 per. What, pray tell, are these??

[bmanic]

Thanks for the offer, Giancarlo. So far I'm pretty much happy. But I'll get back to you should I have further questions.

I only mentioned these large input numbers because I was talking about reverb channels. They usually are much lower in volume. The trick is to get those channel peaks slightly over 0dBFS. The difference between doing this and letting them sit at -20 or even -30dBFS is massive, especially if you run a lot of reverbs.

So, you generally use a gain plugin on slot 1, VCC Channel on Slot 2, a gain plugin (compensation) on slot 3, and on slot 4 and 5 the reverb and an EQ.

No, I always insert VCC channel as the LAST plugin when dealing with reverb/delay channels. That'd be kind of the "out of the box round trip" way on a real console. This way the reverb tail/reflections get treated and not the dry input signal. This is very important and makes a clear difference.

But wouldn't you have to constantly mess with the input gain and the compensation, since send reverb adds up the more you mix? On top of that, wouldn't the input gain knob do the same as a gain plugin pre-VCC Channel?

It all depends on how you use reverbs. I very rarely send multiple things to the same reverb. It's very common for me to run at least 10 reverb plugins, usually much more.

This would also cover my Q whether or not Steven and you utilize the input gain knob to "level in" the source signal before further processing.

I don't like the input gain knob because it isn't compensated at the output.. however you can use the 'desk calibration' to tune the input levels as well and these are compensated as far as I know. It's all a bit mysterious until we get a manual or a video tutorial on the plugin.

And another thing... is a saturation of your desired desk with +1dB really enough already? (well, seeing as the Brit N had a +4dBFS headroom limit, it shoulld be more than enough)

It all depends on the material. The more transient heavy the material is the higher peak input levels you can get away with. If you have a more sustained sound (like a reverb tail or large sustained piano chords) then it'll get a bit "clogged up" if you push it, depending on the algorithm of course.

@Steven:
You see, I'm not the only one asking for a hands-on video. So making one would definitely be great.

Maybe you could cover everything I asked with my last post?

A video would be great!

Ultimately it comes down to using your ears though and experimenting with various material. Try running some really dry drumstick samples, some kick samples and sharp, closed hihat samples through the plugin at various levels of input. These tests will reveal quite a lot of what is happening.

Cheers!
bManic

[Compyfox]

I just saw an ad from FrontEnd Audio that purported to offer Slate Digital VCC "expansion packs" for $50 per. What, pray tell, are these??

I've heard of the price for the first time, but I do know that Steven planned to release more desks, but as "update packs" rather than individual desks. The original "idea" had 6-7 desks IIRC, the final version only has 4. VCC can be expanded according to mails I had with the dev teams - so I'm definitely looking forward to that. Especially the RCA desk (if I remember that name correctly).

Though I'm more after another certain desk, though I don't know if Steven/Fabrice are able to port that request... I'll see.

No, I always insert VCC channel as the LAST plugin when dealing with reverb/delay channels. That'd be kind of the "out of the box round trip" way on a real console. This way the reverb tail/reflections get treated and not the dry input signal. This is very important and makes a clear difference.

Hm... seeing as the sent signal is post fader (and therefore post VCC from that particular channel), it'd be a bit useless to use VCC pre-Reverb if it's a send/return module. Never thought of that.

What about your comment in routing all sends together to one bus with VCC on it? And do you put VCC on the FX bus pre or post fader (well, I don't think you touch the fader of the FX channel at all, just asking for completeness' sake).

It all depends on how you use reverbs. I very rarely send multiple things to the same reverb. It's very common for me to run at least 10 reverb plugins, usually much more.

Wouldn't work in my book then. I still see sends as "optimized limitation", so I route several signals to one main reverb (out of 3-4 absolute maximum) rather than having one reverb for an individual instrument. Usually I use 2-3 reverbs, 2-3 main delays, a chorus and maybe a distortion device just for kicks.

I don't like the input gain knob because it isn't compensated at the output.. however you can use the 'desk calibration' to tune the input levels as well and these are compensated as far as I know. It's all a bit mysterious until we get a manual or a video tutorial on the plugin.

What do you mean by "desk calibration"? Is this a new function in the final? What does it do? Is it auto compensated like with BootEQmkII?

Sorry but I'm still on beta status (with all it's problems) until my iLok2 is shipped and I get access to the full version.

And yes, a proper manual to read through would definitely be great.

It all depends on the material. The more transient heavy the material is the higher peak input levels you can get away with. If you have a more sustained sound (like a reverb tail or large sustained piano chords) then it'll get a bit "clogged up" if you push it, depending on the algorithm of course.

So far I could only push the Brit 4K stronger than +8dBFS (beta2 ilok1), everything else went haywire way sooner (especially BRIT N and "the symbol").

Ultimately it comes down to using your ears though and experimenting with various material. Try running some really dry drumstick samples, some kick samples and sharp, closed hihat samples through the plugin at various levels of input. These tests will reveal quite a lot of what is happening.

Wait, do we talk about "input gain" of VCC CHANNEL now (or a gain plugin pre-VCC), or "input level" as in individual channels driven through the VCC MIX BUSS plugin?

[bill45]

Hey bmanic,
When and where can we get this album you just finished.I'm interested in
hearing another example of the vcc in action.These techniques sound inventive and cool.

[bmanic]

The album is by a local rapper and actor (two rather controversial figures joining forces, a fun project but very stressful! ) so I don't think it'll be easily available to larger crowds but I think I'll be able to post quite a lot of audio examples from the sessions once the album has been printed.

With a little luck I'll have some time tomorrow to open the sessions. The problem with doing direct VCC on, VCC off examples is that I've "mixed into" the plugins quite a bit. This means that of course the VCC examples will sound quite a lot better because they are so different! If I wouldn't have access to the VCC plugins I would probably have done some things differently.

Cheers!
bManic

[AudioGuy720]

1. For users: So, does this plugin make mixing your tracks easier? In other words, closer to that "big studio" sound than before mixing in the box? What makes it a game changer and worth me shelling out $250?

2. If you own TRIGGER how would you recommend using VCC. I'm thinking just on the master channel and none on the individual tracks since. I'm curious how Mr. Slate uses his drum samples with VCC.

[chokehold]

The problem with doing direct VCC on, VCC off examples is that I've "mixed into" the plugins quite a bit. This means that of course the VCC examples will sound quite a lot better because they are so different!

Sorry to spoil it, but ... what's the point then in doing it?

Why can't someone who's got the VCC take one guitar riff, one bass riff, a drum loop, and maybe some vocal snippet and just slam the VCC on them for one and ... well, not slam it onto the other?
Can't be that hard. If I had it, I'd take these 5 minutes.

[bill45]

Thanks bmanic,
I don't nessicarily need to hear the non VCC tracks.

[bishop666]

The problem with doing direct VCC on, VCC off examples is that I've "mixed into" the plugins quite a bit. This means that of course the VCC examples will sound quite a lot better because they are so different!

Sorry to spoil it, but ... what's the point then in doing it?

Why can't someone who's got the VCC take one guitar riff, one bass riff, a drum loop, and maybe some vocal snippet and just slam the VCC on them for one and ... well, not slam it onto the other?
Can't be that hard. If I had it, I'd take these 5 minutes.

+1

[bmanic]

And do you put VCC on the FX bus pre or post fader (well, I don't think you touch the fader of the FX channel at all, just asking for completeness' sake).

I actually use the FX channel fader all the time.. do a lot of automation of it instead of the source channels send (well even that depends on the situation but automating a source channel's send knob instead of the effect channel volume is kind of useless, at least on long reverbs/delays, when you want immediate control of the levels of the tails/echoes). In this case the VCC on an effects return/channel would be pre-fader so that my automation doesn't change the drive of the plugin.. but now that you've said it.. automating stuff pre-FX is actually not a bad idea at all! For instance one could drive each VCC channel just a bit more towards the end of a song or at a climax.

It all depends on how you use reverbs. I very rarely send multiple things to the same reverb. It's very common for me to run at least 10 reverb plugins, usually much more.

Wouldn't work in my book then. I still see sends as "optimized limitation", so I route several signals to one main reverb (out of 3-4 absolute maximum) rather than having one reverb for an individual instrument. Usually I use 2-3 reverbs, 2-3 main delays, a chorus and maybe a distortion device just for kicks.

It all depends on the project of course. If I have a very sparse and conservative arrangement and music genre then I stick to more "natural" sound scapes but having to get tons of instruments to sit within a relatively complex mix forces me to use a lot of different reverbs so that each element gets it's own "fake" space or "mono point" (meaning I use lots of very narrow reverbs, most of them almost completely mono, panned to the same place as the instrument).

I don't like the input gain knob because it isn't compensated at the output.. however you can use the 'desk calibration' to tune the input levels as well and these are compensated as far as I know. It's all a bit mysterious until we get a manual or a video tutorial on the plugin.

What do you mean by "desk calibration"? Is this a new function in the final? What does it do? Is it auto compensated like with BootEQmkII?

Yes it is a new function. As I understand it you can calibrate the 0dBu and dbFS relationship so that -24dBFS represents 0dBU or up to -6dBFS being 0dBu. Basically you can use this to "drive" the console. I'm not sure though if it is a global setting or per plugin instance or if it is handled per group. There is also a "drift" function but I am unsure what that does once it is enabled (at the moment it isn't available yet, just there teasing us).

Sorry but I'm still on beta status (with all it's problems) until my iLok2 is shipped and I get access to the full version.

There have been some significant improvements to the plugin both in sound quality and features, at least in my opinion. I'm pretty sure you'll be very pleased with the latest version!

Ultimately it comes down to using your ears though and experimenting with various material. Try running some really dry drumstick samples, some kick samples and sharp, closed hihat samples through the plugin at various levels of input. These tests will reveal quite a lot of what is happening.

Wait, do we talk about "input gain" of VCC CHANNEL now (or a gain plugin pre-VCC), or "input level" as in individual channels driven through the VCC MIX BUSS plugin?

No, when I talk about "driving" the plugin with lots of input gain I always mean an external plugin and another one to compensate for it after the VCC plugin. In reaper I use the simple JS plugin called Volume and in other hosts it's usually Sonalksis Free-G.

Cheers!
bManic