KVR Audio

penguinfromdeep · Post by **penguinfromdeep** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:59 pm

This thread is derailing very quickly now, let's not continue in this direction..

alixxila · Post by **alixxila** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:03 pm

i'm sorry, i was just bored...i was curious about the VCC plug and got heated during the reading...i'm done...

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:36 pm

Slate wrote:- people who don't like dongles.. even if they like the plugin, will the ilok requirement still stop the purchase?

In speaking for myself, I don't know. When it comes to dongles, I hate having 1) a third party control my authorizations, and 2) a piece of hardware plugged into a USB port (right now I have a single open USB port that gets used regularly to charge my iPhone or transfer pics from my camera, that's where the dongle would have to go). Then there are the additional authorization issues (saw a bunch of people reporting problems on the Gearslutz thread) and the additional risk of a hardware failure seriously inconveniencing things.

On the other hand, there are some quality iLok plugins that I otherwise would have already bought had they not been dongle protected (the Sofftube FET Comp & CL-1B, Abbey Road RS124, etc.). It's possible that VCC could be the plugin that forces me to give up my resistance, but then again, it may not be. At least there's a chance. I will absolutely not give in and buy an iLok2 just to demo VCC however.

Question: will iLok2 store original iLok auth's without any additional work (i.e. is it backwards compatible)? I'd also have no interest in iLok2 if VCC was the only plugin that worked with it. But if it will currently store Softtube and Abbey Road auths, then that would make it at least somewhat more attractive.

Slate wrote:- if we do the non ilok demo (just Brit 4k with mutes), it gets cracked, will this defeat sales of the full plugin/

I don't think it would in any significant way. People would still want the extra options, and those who were content with the crack would probably account for a small majority.

penguinfromdeep · Post by **penguinfromdeep** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:43 pm

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Question: will iLok2 store original iLok auth's without any additional work (i.e. is it backwards compatible)? I'd also have no interest in iLok2 if VCC was the only plugin that worked with it. But if it will currently store Softtube and Abbey Road auths, then that would make it at least somewhat more attractive.

Yes it's fully backwards compatible, I transferred all my old licenses from ilok1 to ilok2 with no problems whatsoever. Everything works perfectly!

maxxxter · Post by **maxxxter** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:44 pm

DELETED

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:07 pm

penguinfromdeep wrote:
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Question: will iLok2 store original iLok auth's without any additional work (i.e. is it backwards compatible)? I'd also have no interest in iLok2 if VCC was the only plugin that worked with it. But if it will currently store Softtube and Abbey Road auths, then that would make it at least somewhat more attractive.
Yes it's fully backwards compatible, I transferred all my old licenses from ilok1 to ilok2 with no problems whatsoever. Everything works perfectly!

That's good to know. Thanks.

bishop666 · Post by **bishop666** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:11 pm

@Slate: Keep it the way it is: ilok2 demo only.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:13 pm

Did somebody mention the "size" of the iLok yet? It's much smaller than before! (around the same size of the Syncrosoft key if I'm not mistaken). I mean, LOOK - AT - THAT!

[/ot sarcasm]

But yeah... we went from "plugin congratulations" to "questions" to "hate and flame all over copyprotection" again.

Welcome to the internet.

alixxila wrote:sorry i hit a nerve there,,,i'll remove the comments....

Editing/Removing comments doesn't help, I'm sorry to say that.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:40 pm

Compyfox wrote:But yeah... we went from "plugin congratulations" to "questions" to "hate and flame all over copyprotection" again.

Welcome to the internet.

In all fairness, when it comes to any plugin that uses copy protection, the copy protection scheme becomes part of the product. It's a completely legit discussion to have and the developer himself has asked for input on the subject.

It looks like I missed the hate/flame part as that happened while I was asleep and much has been edited out, but there's no need it needs to turn into that. If you see something stupid, ignore it. Don't fan the flames.

pwal · Post by **pwal** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:44 pm

so finally there is some uncrackable copy protection?

b-pole · Post by **b-pole** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:45 pm

Of course I made some short examples on page 8 which hopefully helps also a bit for EDM style. Here the links again:
Without VCC
With VCC - SSL
With VCC - Neve
With VCC - API
With VCC - Trident

Dear Frank,
sorry to say this, this week I were at my ear doctor because of pain, made an ear test and all is super fine.

I do not hear really "big" differences

Perhaps not possible to hear differences with my Event PS8?
Or is it my Mackie Big Knob?

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:49 pm

pwal wrote:so finally there is some uncrackable copy protection?

Uncracked so far (it's new). Not uncrackable. Whether it will be cracked remains to be seen.

Dr.Gunjah · Post by **Dr.Gunjah** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:03 pm

Slate wrote:gonna discuss this with the team.. more opinions appreciated. I would love it if everyone can experience what this plugin can do without the ilok obstacle, but I also don't want two years of work to bite the dust due to piracy..

The customer currently has the decision to buy it blindly or to buy another dongle to just be able to test the product...
It's like the car salesman says to you "You can have a test drive, but you first have to buy this anti car stealing device for $1000". I would be highly interested in the sales of this guy

And about the developer point of view... In my opinion it's better to sell 500 copies while 1000 cracked ones are in use out there, than selling 100 copies and not a single cracked one out there(which also only counts for the first months/years because we all know it will be cracked one day)
It's real money you are loosing while the money you are loosing due to piracy is always an estimation as you CAN NOT PROVE that all those crack users would have bought your software if there wasn't the cracked version.
I'm not defending piracy here, I hate those guys like you do. I just want to suggest talking about reality and not about "what if..."

- people who don't like dongles.. even if they like the plugin, will the ilok requirement still stop the purchase?

To speak for myself - it depends.
I buy iLok Software if it's totally convincing to me and I can't find a similar plugin that doesn't use iLok. For two plugins that are quite equal I will always choose the non-iLok plugin.
VCC is yet another special case because you can't test it without a new iLok, and I clearly won't buy a new iLok to TEST a plugin

- if we do the non ilok demo (just Brit 4k with mutes), it gets cracked, will this defeat sales of the full plugin/

Those guys that prefer using a cracked demo version with crippled features over buying the original with full featureset would probably never ever have bought the plugin... so IMO the answer is no.

@bManic: do you have a link to that posts where devs show how piracy defeats their sales? To be honest I can't imagine this is true.

Cheers,
Doc

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:31 pm

*rolls eyes*
Not the "car keys" argumentation with copyprotection again.

People, face it please. The times of iLok 1 are over. It's only there for the time being for compatibility's sake. iLok 2 is the forseeable future - smaller, higher encryption, backwards compatibility, more licenses to store.

What would you have done if it'd be Syncrosoft eLicenser?

I'm so tired of seeing the constant "copy protection" debate that derails most of the threads on every music software related board. If that is the developers decition, then it's their call and we users have to cave. You don't have to get it, do you? Or do you complain if you buy a HDTV receiver but don't need the built in HDD as well (to throw in another ridiculus argument to this meme)?

Of course we've seen the "customer forced the developers to drop the USB key" as well (Linplug and IK Multimedia comes to mind), but I actually PREFER an USB key solution. Why? Simple install, no trouble with C/R (Line6 and Native Instruments come to mind) or keeping serials at hand.

Steven - don't let yourself being talked out of that.

So far, iLok2 is stable (as is Syncrosoft eLicenser btw) and due to the new encryption, fairly save from hacks as well. Though only time may tell how long that strongholds holds out for.

In short: keep the iLok2 demo as it is. It was (IMO) a good move, though a bit bad timed since not every country had access to the iLok2 while doing the switch.

If you have complaints about the "price" of a new/upgrade iLok - complain to Pace, not Steven Slate.

Slate · Post by **Slate** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:25 pm

Wow thanks so much for the great feedback!

Few things:

- piracy absolutely affects sales. We've learned this first hand.

- compyfox, I completely understand your points. Many people tell us we should be charging $500 plus for our plugins, and at least I'd like to think they are worth it!

But the fact is, that people want to pay LESS for technology each year.. especially as the recording industry grows.. the entry level sector obviously expands the most.

People don't want to pay $500 for a plugin anymore... its become very obvious, not only to us, but to other plugin developers who have finally dropped their pricing after charging this type of pricing for years now.

I believe our pricing structure works well for the industry.. time will tell. We may in the future offer a more advanced version of our plugin line that has more options and pro features.. we'll see.

As for the demo... After some thought.. I believe there is a market of engineers who would absolutely love what the VCC does to their mixes.. but would be scared to buy without at least demoing.. Therefore, a non ilok demo still interests me and I'll be discussing the best way to do it with my team.

again, I appreciate the comments. Hopefully we can hear some more VCC audio demos until we get our demo page up this weekend.

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