Some time ago I asked in the forum about a deep house tune I particularly love. The tune is no longer on youtube, it's Harley and Muscle's remix of Make amends by The Rurals.
Well, if it's uploaded again I'll post it here. But for the time being, what intrigued me about the tune was that the main part was built about a simple cadence, a minor ninth chord, another minor ninth chord a semitone up, and that's it.
So, with the understanding that that's a cadence (a movement of two chords which resolve), I'd like to know: how does it fit into theory? Because it's not using the major scale right?
As it's using notes a semitones away, I don't know from which scale or mode it's drawing them from. The helpful guys who replied to my question told me that that cadence was a pretty common move in jazz. Has it got any name? How can I learn more about it?
I know that in music, "if it sounds goods, use it". But I want to know if there's any place where I can learn about that kind of cadence or technique, as it sounds very smoooth and pleasing, and I would like to know if it's got any theory backing behind why it sounds so cool.
By the way I seem to recall it was F minor 9th, then F# minor ninth.
Thanks guys!
Semitone up and down cadence
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RandolphCarter RandolphCarter https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185449
- KVRist
- 163 posts since 22 Jul, 2008
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- KVRist
- 105 posts since 4 Aug, 2008 from Atlanta, GA
This is called a Tritone Substitution. You can read the explanation of it on Wikipedia here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone_substitution
Basically the principle is that you can make a substitution for any chord with a chord built on a root that is a tritone away from the original chord root.
In your example, the key seems to be F. So, the normal authentic cadence in F would be C7 - F. If we do a tritone substitution for the C7, we get a chord built on F# (C to F# is a tritone). Hence we have the F#m9 - Fm9 cadence.
The Tritone Substitution is very common in jazz.
- Ken
Basically the principle is that you can make a substitution for any chord with a chord built on a root that is a tritone away from the original chord root.
In your example, the key seems to be F. So, the normal authentic cadence in F would be C7 - F. If we do a tritone substitution for the C7, we get a chord built on F# (C to F# is a tritone). Hence we have the F#m9 - Fm9 cadence.
The Tritone Substitution is very common in jazz.
- Ken
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RandolphCarter RandolphCarter https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185449
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 163 posts since 22 Jul, 2008
Woah, thanks Ken! So THAT'S a tritone substitution! I had already read about it in some books, but didn't really realize the usefulness of it, and didn't make the connection to this track.
Thanks a lot Ken, very useful to know.
Thanks a lot Ken, very useful to know.
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- KVRist
- 140 posts since 20 May, 2005
The tritone substitution is, as I understand it, only for dominant chords. Also, tritone sub is always downward by half-step rather than upwards.
Tritone sub: Instead of C7 to F, you can substitute with F#7, which resolves down by half-step to F. This is because, first of all, the most important notes in the C7 chord are E (TI in solfege, in this case) and Bb (FA in solfege), which resolve to F and A, respectively (assuming you are resolving to an F triad-- otherwise, if resolving to Fmaj7, the E would remain where it is.) Also, notice that E and Bb are the 3rd and 7th of the aforementioned C7 chord. Now, F#7 is very similar-- its 3rd and 7th are A#, which is the same note as Bb (enharmonic), and E. Only difference is, this time E is the 7th of the chord, rather than the 3rd as it is in the C7 chord, and same thing vice versa with the Bb/A#, it's the 3rd of an F#7 chord instead of the 7th of the C7 chord.
F#7's most basic resolution would be to go to B or Bmaj7: the A#(TI) stays or moves to B (DO) and the E (FA)resolves down to D# (MI). But in this case the roles flip, the E acts as TI in the key of F, instead of FA, and the A# acts as FA (or really BB) in the key of F, instead of TI. And therefore its resolution is very much like C7 going to F except that the root is going down a half-step instead of down a Perfect 5th.
So basically, every dominant chord has another dominant chord a tritone away (from its root, obviously) that contains the same notes that comprise the 3rd and 7th of the chord, and these notes form a tritone between themselves and are the all-important notes FA and TI. (Furthermore, the C7 altered scale and a F#7 lydian dominant scale share the same exact notes. This pretty important once you're understanding all the notes involed in the tritone sub instead of just the basic chords.)
But for minor chords, these factors are not there. Having never heard the track, but based on the chords you've mentioned, I assume that this so-called cadence works simply because all the notes move by a half-step. Half-step movement between voices always sounds good. Also, since both chords are the same chord-type, that is known as common structure. Meaning you take any chord, or really a specific voicing, and you can move it up or down by a 3rd, 2nd, 4th, whatever, and the chords seem to sound like they go together.
Tritone sub: Instead of C7 to F, you can substitute with F#7, which resolves down by half-step to F. This is because, first of all, the most important notes in the C7 chord are E (TI in solfege, in this case) and Bb (FA in solfege), which resolve to F and A, respectively (assuming you are resolving to an F triad-- otherwise, if resolving to Fmaj7, the E would remain where it is.) Also, notice that E and Bb are the 3rd and 7th of the aforementioned C7 chord. Now, F#7 is very similar-- its 3rd and 7th are A#, which is the same note as Bb (enharmonic), and E. Only difference is, this time E is the 7th of the chord, rather than the 3rd as it is in the C7 chord, and same thing vice versa with the Bb/A#, it's the 3rd of an F#7 chord instead of the 7th of the C7 chord.
F#7's most basic resolution would be to go to B or Bmaj7: the A#(TI) stays or moves to B (DO) and the E (FA)resolves down to D# (MI). But in this case the roles flip, the E acts as TI in the key of F, instead of FA, and the A# acts as FA (or really BB) in the key of F, instead of TI. And therefore its resolution is very much like C7 going to F except that the root is going down a half-step instead of down a Perfect 5th.
So basically, every dominant chord has another dominant chord a tritone away (from its root, obviously) that contains the same notes that comprise the 3rd and 7th of the chord, and these notes form a tritone between themselves and are the all-important notes FA and TI. (Furthermore, the C7 altered scale and a F#7 lydian dominant scale share the same exact notes. This pretty important once you're understanding all the notes involed in the tritone sub instead of just the basic chords.)
But for minor chords, these factors are not there. Having never heard the track, but based on the chords you've mentioned, I assume that this so-called cadence works simply because all the notes move by a half-step. Half-step movement between voices always sounds good. Also, since both chords are the same chord-type, that is known as common structure. Meaning you take any chord, or really a specific voicing, and you can move it up or down by a 3rd, 2nd, 4th, whatever, and the chords seem to sound like they go together.
Sam
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- KVRist
- 140 posts since 20 May, 2005
A good example of tritione sub is when in a jazz progression, instead of going Emin7 to A7 to Dmin7 to G7 to C, it goes Emin7- Eb7- Dmin7- Db7-C. All the root movements are down by half step. The Eb7 subs for A7, and the Db7 subs for G7.
You can hear this type of thing on the track My Romance on Bill Evans' famous Village Vanguard recordings. (Discs 1 and 2, there are two takes of this song.) Which, btw, are highly recommended if you've never heard them-- so fantastic that I nver seem to tire of listening. The sound is great, the musicians are at their best, it is jazz at its best.
You can hear this type of thing on the track My Romance on Bill Evans' famous Village Vanguard recordings. (Discs 1 and 2, there are two takes of this song.) Which, btw, are highly recommended if you've never heard them-- so fantastic that I nver seem to tire of listening. The sound is great, the musicians are at their best, it is jazz at its best.
Sam
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
you can call it what you like but it's generally called tritone substitution
and shows up in reharmonization sections of most theory books.
The discussion above was well done. It's a particularly slinky kind of resolution, but one reason it works so well is the surprise factor. It can be overdone.
chromatic movement (modulation?) to my mind has more to do with passing chords (use of dim7 chords and such)
and shows up in reharmonization sections of most theory books.
The discussion above was well done. It's a particularly slinky kind of resolution, but one reason it works so well is the surprise factor. It can be overdone.
chromatic movement (modulation?) to my mind has more to do with passing chords (use of dim7 chords and such)
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- KVRAF
- 2118 posts since 1 Apr, 2004 from Athens, Greece
It's NOT a tritone substitution and you WON'T find a similar example in any theory/harmony book. Sammy24 explained very well in his first post why.
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- KVRAF
- 2217 posts since 15 Jul, 2003
oh I guess the original context is the original poster's message
my bad
my bad
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RandolphCarter RandolphCarter https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185449
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 163 posts since 22 Jul, 2008
Found the track, it's here:
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- KVRist
- 140 posts since 20 May, 2005
Upon hearing it, seems more like a passing chord than anything. Jazz players often do that kind of movement, chromatic or parallel, while a chord is in effect. And the bass doesn't seem to move to that chord. So basically it's all one chord, but that chromatic movement sounds cool.
Sam