KVR Audio

ahmk · Post by **ahmk** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:33 pm

Hi,
I like to think that I'm a reasonable songwriter, so I've made a video covering how I write a song. It focuses on melody, hopefully someone will find it useful. I appreciate any feedback. Thanks

blueman · Post by **blueman** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:39 pm

nice! Thank you

Resonator63 · Post by **Resonator63** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:22 pm

Nice one

Thanks

mr · Post by mr » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:54 am

I agree. I have a question.
The chord related to, let say, the first beat of a mesure, is better to be in sync, some time before or some time after the note. What is your or other members opinion on that?

Hewitt Huntwork · Post by **Hewitt Huntwork** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:59 am

I enjoyed that very much! I almost always write with an instrument, I never consider which notes of the scale should be favored, and while I enjoy Def Leppard as much as the next guy, I consider the lyrics of *my* songs to be extremely important.

Still, your acknowledgement of the role of instinct and your anticipation of being disagreed with were both refreshing and charming. Great vid that will help lots of folks. You should make more.

3ee · Post by **3ee** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:17 am

Thanks for the video, enjoyed it much.. now if I'll remember, I'll pay greater attention to my melodies when I'm creating a new song.

Will there be more videos like this? Well... I'm subscribing just to be sure...
Thanks again!

Cheers

ahmk · Post by **ahmk** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:48 am

Thanks for the kind words.

mr wrote:The chord related to, let say, the first beat of a mesure, is better to be in sync, some time before or some time after the note. What is your or other members opinion on that?

To make the melody drive the song, I try and make the final note of a melody before a chord lead into that chord, while keeping a nice chord progression. But don't change a good melody just to do this.

Hewitt Huntwork wrote:I consider the lyrics of *my* songs to be extremely important.

I think writing lyrics shouldn't be ignored, but a bad song won't be made much better by good lyrics. That's why I leave them till last, otherwise the lyrics make you think your song is better than it actually is.

I may make more videos, but I've already put all my favourite tips into this one

manducator · Post by **manducator** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:07 am

Great video!! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

audington · Post by **audington** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:32 pm

I actually find that writing lyrics first - at least a verse/chorus/bridge in draft form - can be beneficial, because the natural rhythm you find from singing words can suggest melodies. Whether you stick with your lyrics or not is another matter, but it can help to get things started if you're stuck in a dry patch.

Great video though, and I know you said consider lyrics to be the least important part of the song, I'd be very interested to see a video of how you actually come up with your lyrics, whether you take pride in them or not

kelvyn · Post by **kelvyn** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:42 pm

Very nice songs... 'To The Sea' would be a great song for Ellie Goulding and 'My Skin' would be good for the Pet Shop Boys and although you don't place much importance on lyrics 'My Skin' also has great words. BUT! Nice is somehow vanilla and vanilla as nice as it is can be a little bland compared to other tasty things. You stress the importance of melodies but not rythme which in todays pop music is also a very important component. when I see/hear/read tutorials like yours I worry about music making becoming a generic thing where everything is like everything else... templates for living where free creative expression is not understood anymore because everybody is staying in the comfort zone. I think it's great that you did the tutorial and there's some solid advice there... I personally think that also taking some chances wouldn't be too bad for an obviously talented songwriter like yourself...

My 2 cents...

mellotronaut · Post by **mellotronaut** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:43 pm

a very good tutorial for songwriting.

recently i participated in a contest and there were just two songs incl. mine. the other submissions were electronic instrumentals. my song was a bit quirky, but it had a catchy melody. the person, who won the contest, said about my song (literally): 'it would be a great song with some dsp power'. i felt so old and old-fashioned then.

thank you very much and

m

ahmk · Post by **ahmk** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:55 pm

audington wrote:I actually find that writing lyrics first - at least a verse/chorus/bridge in draft form - can be beneficial, because the natural rhythm you find from singing words can suggest melodies.

A good idea. This is why I don't want to say my methods are the only way to write a song.

kelvyn wrote:when I see/hear/read tutorials like yours I worry about music making becoming a generic thing where everything is like everything else...

Listening to the radio would make you think we're already there, but I think you shouldn't worry about this. People get tired of hearing the same thing, so an artist who does something original will always get more attention. Creativity can't be learned from a rule book. I'm just trying to give guidelines which I hope will help someone who already has a good ear. Thanks for listening to my songs! You've got some very professional sounding songs on your site. Is the production influenced by Hooverphonic?

Thanks Mellotronaut

1-2-Many · Post by **1-2-Many** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:31 pm

Good vid - I've aways had a hard time coming up with a melody without some sort of harmonic cadence behind it, but then I find the chord progression and song structure directs the melody, not vice versa, as you say it should be.

I most always write lyrics last, and just gibberish the vocals to get the melody, but then I find the gibberish now directs my lyric. I've always noted that the starting point of a song, and order you put the pieces together has a strong determination of the outcome. Watching your video I'm thinking I should refine my approach even further (i.e. arriving at the melody earlier in the process)

I think you're right about the place of melody in pop music, but wouldn't ignore the importance of other factors in a song - interested on how you would rank them as far as how they contribute to making a good song - we already know you place lyrics near last. What's inbetween?

As a next vid - it would be cool if you documented the creation of a song from its inception to completion to show your process.

Thanks again for putting up this Vid

balimero · Post by **balimero** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:53 pm

Thanks for this video! It's very inspirational.

ahmk · Post by **ahmk** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:58 pm

Thanks Balimero

1-2-Many wrote:I've aways had a hard time coming up with a melody without some sort of harmonic cadence behind it ... Watching your video I'm thinking I should refine my approach even further (i.e. arriving at the melody earlier in the process)

I don't use a backing to come up with the chorus melody because then I can better judge if the chorus is memorable. An alternative you could use might be coming up with something using chords as a backing, then taking the chords away and seeing what you can change to make the melody sound strong on its own.

1-2-Many wrote:I think you're right about the place of melody in pop music, but wouldn't ignore the importance of other factors in a song

Even outside pop, I think a strong melody (in vocal or instrument form) is the main thing that is common to all 'good' songs. Everything else is subjective and depends on what's fashionable, personal tastes etc. In my opinion

I like the video idea!

A songwriting tutorial I made