Hi, I have just bought Garritan Jazz & Big Band 3 mostly for it's Brass Sections, but...
When you load an ensemble each individual instrument of Brass is assigned to a different midi channel meaning you have to layer the different instruments to create a section, but watching this guy here at 0:44 seconds using Garritan JABB3 he is only using one finger, this must mean all Brass instruments are in unison(assigned to same midi channel) and not creating a chord(I mean all playing the same notes, it certainly sounds that way), Is this usually the case in Funk/Pop styles or does a Brass Section sometimes create chords by each instrument playing different notes.
Can someone enlighten me on how a real Funk/Pop brass section works, Chords created or all playing the same notes usually or sometimes either? Once I suss this I will be able to work with Garritan JABB3 a little better, I've heard it do the type of sounds I'm looking for, so just need a little knowledge here...
Cheers!
Funk Brass sections, daft question alert!
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- KVRAF
- 4279 posts since 14 Nov, 2008 from UK
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- KVRist
- 441 posts since 30 Apr, 2007
When he starts playing keys in that video, the horns are not in unison. He is only playing one of the parts. Funk could have unison at times or 2-3 parts in harmony. To make a convincing arrangement the rhythms and articulations will be very important.
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- KVRAF
- 7837 posts since 20 Jan, 2008
!agrees with Nystul.
Dell Vostro i9 64GB Ram Windows 11 Pro, Cubase, Bitwig, Mixcraft Guitar Pod Go, Linntrument Nektar P1, Novation Launchpad
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- something special
- 8627 posts since 16 Mar, 2002 from Birmingham, Alabama
me too..also, when making a chord spread the intervals out among the instruments..have the sax play g, trombone b and trumpet d etc..tapper mike wrote:!agrees with Nystul.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
I suggest you start listening to and transcribing horn parts off of records, once you've done it for a while and reliably then you'll *know* what happens. You aren't really going to *suss* it via some information on the interwebs.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4279 posts since 14 Nov, 2008 from UK
I have many Funk/DC Go-Go/Soul/Brit Funk records in my 12" vinyl collection and a pair of turn tables included in my set-up so this would be easy for me to hear stuff/copy to get the idea, also with the way Garritan works I would have to layer each part of the section to it's own midi channel, cheers also Bluedad and everyone else, so normally they are in Harmony - but sometimes unison, I should be able to move on with it now!jancivil wrote:I suggest you start listening to and transcribing horn parts off of records, once you've done it for a while and reliably then you'll *know* what happens. You aren't really going to *suss* it via some information on the interwebs.
Thanks!
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
A good way to proceed is to import some audio in your sequencer and copy what you hear in that in the piano roll with that garritan library loaded.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4279 posts since 14 Nov, 2008 from UK
I used to do that with drums and basslines to learn, that I got sounding good now, what I actually want to achieve is brass sections and stabs that sound like samples of old funk records but all my own work instead of breaching copyright. like Kool & The Gang 70's stuff, so very short to the point little riffs/loops, One of my fave tunes is Grandmixer D.ST - Crazy Cuts from 1984, stuff like them horn sections too...jancivil wrote:A good way to proceed is to import some audio in your sequencer and copy what you hear in that in the piano roll with that garritan library loaded.
@ 1 min 10, love it!
any clues to what brass to layer?
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
hard to hear really clearly something that compressed on my macbook... the brass sounds like synth here;
but that style uses unisons and sometimes P 4ths in parallel, not so much full triads. That's kind of typical, but I wouldn't look for a formulaic approach, 'it depends'. (The 4ths will be the fifth and root of the chord, omitting the third.)
for instance put the tenor sax a fourth below the trumpet. a lot can be done with just trumpet and tenor sax, you have the reedy thang with the brass, texturally. I would say a good basis for your arrangement exercises will be trombone, tenor, trumpet; get an attractive sound going restricting yourself to two and three parts first. There's going to be practical differences between having the horns take a harmony vs riffs. In that track there were riffs. If you need the horns to carry the chord change, eg., in a 7th chord your essentials are the 3rd and 7ths; a riff will often be as in that track, unisons/fourths.
there are certain moves harmonically, such as a drive to the IV chord, that will be harmonized certain ways.
Such as, say we're going from F7 to Bb7, you'll slide into the third and seventh of that Bb7's Ab & D from the F7's A & Eb, a basic kind of jazzy sounding, blues device.
Often enough, 'less is more', you want a clean uncluttered sound, there's not a lot of call for being tricky or cute. If it's a strong riff, unison is often enough, you're just punching the riff up with some texture.
(If you happen to go on to more complex writing in a jazz vocabulary, you'll need some part-writing experience, which IMO is best done with a teacher, either one to one or in a classroom. The community college in my hometown had a specific course in jazz harmony and arranging and it wasn't too dear.)
but that style uses unisons and sometimes P 4ths in parallel, not so much full triads. That's kind of typical, but I wouldn't look for a formulaic approach, 'it depends'. (The 4ths will be the fifth and root of the chord, omitting the third.)
for instance put the tenor sax a fourth below the trumpet. a lot can be done with just trumpet and tenor sax, you have the reedy thang with the brass, texturally. I would say a good basis for your arrangement exercises will be trombone, tenor, trumpet; get an attractive sound going restricting yourself to two and three parts first. There's going to be practical differences between having the horns take a harmony vs riffs. In that track there were riffs. If you need the horns to carry the chord change, eg., in a 7th chord your essentials are the 3rd and 7ths; a riff will often be as in that track, unisons/fourths.
there are certain moves harmonically, such as a drive to the IV chord, that will be harmonized certain ways.
Such as, say we're going from F7 to Bb7, you'll slide into the third and seventh of that Bb7's Ab & D from the F7's A & Eb, a basic kind of jazzy sounding, blues device.
Often enough, 'less is more', you want a clean uncluttered sound, there's not a lot of call for being tricky or cute. If it's a strong riff, unison is often enough, you're just punching the riff up with some texture.
(If you happen to go on to more complex writing in a jazz vocabulary, you'll need some part-writing experience, which IMO is best done with a teacher, either one to one or in a classroom. The community college in my hometown had a specific course in jazz harmony and arranging and it wasn't too dear.)
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 4279 posts since 14 Nov, 2008 from UK
Many thanks for the info(I'll copy paste to a note on my studio pc) - the bits I don't understand I will ask my wife's step dad, he writes jazz/big band notation using an app called band in a box or somethingjancivil wrote:hard to hear really clearly something that compressed on my macbook... the brass sounds like synth here;
but that style uses unisons and sometimes P 4ths in parallel, not so much full triads. That's kind of typical, but I wouldn't look for a formulaic approach, 'it depends'. (The 4ths will be the fifth and root of the chord, omitting the third.)
for instance put the tenor sax a fourth below the trumpet. a lot can be done with just trumpet and tenor sax, you have the reedy thang with the brass, texturally. I would say a good basis for your arrangement exercises will be trombone, tenor, trumpet; get an attractive sound going restricting yourself to two and three parts first. There's going to be practical differences between having the horns take a harmony vs riffs. In that track there were riffs. If you need the horns to carry the chord change, eg., in a 7th chord your essentials are the 3rd and 7ths; a riff will often be as in that track, unisons/fourths.
there are certain moves harmonically, such as a drive to the IV chord, that will be harmonized certain ways.
Such as, say we're going from F7 to Bb7, you'll slide into the third and seventh of that Bb7's Ab & D from the F7's A & Eb, a basic kind of jazzy sounding, blues device.
Often enough, 'less is more', you want a clean uncluttered sound, there's not a lot of call for being tricky or cute. If it's a strong riff, unison is often enough, you're just punching the riff up with some texture.
(If you happen to go on to more complex writing in a jazz vocabulary, you'll need some part-writing experience, which IMO is best done with a teacher, either one to one or in a classroom. The community college in my hometown had a specific course in jazz harmony and arranging and it wasn't too dear.)
, he also sings alot of Frank Sinatra songs so certainly understands that type of thing - so I will show him what you speak of, to explain it more to me!I am still wanting lessons but still cannot find a tutor, plenty guitar tutors around but never any keyboard tutors in the local rag!
Cheers!
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
what you may want to look for is a class, or tutor, in harmony, if you can't find a piano person.
I can't really play the piano. I got my harmony chops together without having a piano available to me. That won't be for everyone obviously, but one can learn harmony and all the concepts without having to gain a whole lot of chops on the keyboard. I say gain familiarity as much as humanly possible with the intervals on the keyboard (and get that in sync with your ear), especially as a piano roll person, but unless you're going to have to *be* a pianist...
if there's what we call community college in the states in your area with a music theory course or curriculum, it might be just the ticket.
I can't really play the piano. I got my harmony chops together without having a piano available to me. That won't be for everyone obviously, but one can learn harmony and all the concepts without having to gain a whole lot of chops on the keyboard. I say gain familiarity as much as humanly possible with the intervals on the keyboard (and get that in sync with your ear), especially as a piano roll person, but unless you're going to have to *be* a pianist...
if there's what we call community college in the states in your area with a music theory course or curriculum, it might be just the ticket.
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- KVRian
- 1480 posts since 14 Jun, 2003
i chart out a lot of horn section parts for the bands i play with. i love doing it.
the quick answer is they do both. whenever anyone says funk brass i immediately think of tower of power and theyre great with voicing chords with 5-6 piece brass and have a powerful octaves sound also, of course.
i don't know about them but theres midi sequences of a lot of other funk bands like kool and the gang and earth wind and fire and james brown available free on the net and some of them do a fine job of transcribing the horns.
the quick answer is they do both. whenever anyone says funk brass i immediately think of tower of power and theyre great with voicing chords with 5-6 piece brass and have a powerful octaves sound also, of course.
i don't know about them but theres midi sequences of a lot of other funk bands like kool and the gang and earth wind and fire and james brown available free on the net and some of them do a fine job of transcribing the horns.