Your next guitar?

[GermanFafian]

googling it I dont see as many complaints as I have heard in person (but there are a few)...I hated it

I have had problems with all 3 bolt neck I have ever worked with.

[hibidy]

I thank you for that info. I never knew

[hibidy]

Oh noes!

http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-JS1000

They have one that seems to be new at my local GC for about 1200 which seems to be a much better price than the norm.

I .......really...........don't...........need........another guitar

[mcnoone]

googling it I dont see as many complaints as I have heard in person (but there are a few)...I hated it

I know what your talking about, but I never had those problems with mine.
I built my own guitar after that, with a tele teak wood body (heavy as hell)
Fender parts and a single pickup, with a kramer pacer neck.
It wasn't half as good as the older one, probably due to those DiMarzio's which where the perfect pickups imo.
I'm plan on adding 2 of those dual humbuckers, after some serious wood cutting, sometime in the future.
I also had an old Guild acoustic that was awesome.
It was my first guitar I got when I was 8, but sold that one long ago.

[Hink]

googling it I dont see as many complaints as I have heard in person (but there are a few)...I hated it

I have had problems with all 3 bolt neck I have ever worked with.

Well I believe that some G&L are still the same (or were), I know I'm not the only one who had problems with it but I realize other people liked it enough for G&L to still use it.

[susiwong]

googling it I dont see as many complaints as I have heard in person (but there are a few)...I hated it

I have had problems with all 3 bolt neck I have ever worked with.

Well I believe that some G&L are still the same (or were), I know I'm not the only one who had problems with it but I realize other people liked it enough for G&L to still use it.

'70s 7enders ...
Great example of investors running a fine company into the ground.

The tilt neck problems were just as much caused by lack of precision with the woodworking.
When done properly the principle ain't too bad.

Ymmv,
susiwong

[Hink]

googling it I dont see as many complaints as I have heard in person (but there are a few)...I hated it

I have had problems with all 3 bolt neck I have ever worked with.

Well I believe that some G&L are still the same (or were), I know I'm not the only one who had problems with it but I realize other people liked it enough for G&L to still use it.

'70s 7enders ...
Great example of investors running a fine company into the ground.

The tilt neck problems were just as much caused by lack of precision with the woodworking.
When done properly the principle ain't too bad.

Ymmv,
susiwong

I agree, but from the machinist POV...working with wood rarely can be precise (when I talk about precision I'm talking at the very least +/- .005") because too many other factors influence wood as you know. So not only was it possibly the lack of precision but also the downside of wood and of course once the problem started it only got worse.

[susiwong]

I agree, but from the machinist POV...working with wood rarely can be precise (when I talk about precision I'm talking at the very least +/- .005") because too many other factors influence wood as you know. So not only was it possibly the lack of precision but also the downside of wood and of course once the problem started it only got worse.

Dunno, on most of my bolt-ons the neck pocket is extremely tight so even without screws the neck can't move (without strings).
Not the rule with '70s 7enders, I'm afraid.
Give or take 2 mm, who cares ?
In fact the lacklustre quality of these guitars and their Gibson contemporaries was what started the whole "vintage" thing - people were willing to pay big money for instruments that were better made than current production models of the day.
Paradoxically some clever businessmen extended the definition of "vintage" beyond sanity.
Some folks just want to be cheated ...
My personal view: the "vintage" era definitely ended somewhere in the 60s, depending on model - everything newer is just an old s/h guitar without any price bonus. Take it at face value.
Ymmv,
susiwong

[Hink]

I agree, but from the machinist POV...working with wood rarely can be precise (when I talk about precision I'm talking at the very least +/- .005") because too many other factors influence wood as you know. So not only was it possibly the lack of precision but also the downside of wood and of course once the problem started it only got worse.

Dunno, on most of my bolt-ons the neck pocket is extremely tight so even without screws the neck can't move (without strings).
Not the rule with '70s 7enders, I'm afraid.
Give or take 2 mm, who cares ?
In fact the lacklustre quality of these guitars and their Gibson contemporaries was what started the whole "vintage" thing - people were willing to pay big money for instruments that were better made than current production models of the day.
Paradoxically some clever businessmen extended the definition of "vintage" beyond sanity.
Some folks just want to be cheated ...
My personal view: the "vintage" era definitely ended somewhere in the 60s, depending on model - everything newer is just an old s/h guitar without any price bonus. Take it at face value.
Ymmv,
susiwong

of course you are right but I have to laugh at myself for your comment 'give or take 2 mm, who cares'

When I built that dulcimer I cared, but the reason is 4 years of schooling in machine shop it was so drilled into my head I can't help it. There I was with my machinist scale* (a machinist ruler), magnifying goggles and taking pictures with the scale in them using my macro lens to make sure I had everything exactly right, drilling in other pieces of wood for tests first and such...especially the compound angles the pins had to go in at...my wife asked the same thing "does it mstter thst much?"

Of course the answer was "it does to me"

*note I should get a pair of vernier calipers but I refuse to buy cheap ones and the good ones are just too much money for the little use I would give them.

[susiwong]

I have to laugh at myself for your comment 'give or take 2 mm, who cares'

You can take this literally, I've seen lots of 7enders from the Dark Ages with these tolerances.
Sometimes we had to glue sanding paper (correct term ?) on the contact area to get the neck marginally stable.
Of course that's not how a good instrument is built.
Like you described, precision and attention to detail are absolute requirements.
Cheers,
susiwong

[Hink]

I have to laugh at myself for your comment 'give or take 2 mm, who cares'

You can take this literally, I've seen lots of 7enders from the Dark Ages with these tolerances.
Sometimes we had to glue sanding paper (correct term ?) on the contact area to get the neck marginally stable.
Of course that's not how a good instrument is built.
Like you described, precision and attention to detail are absolute requirements.
Cheers,
susiwong

oh I have no doubt that Fender used similar tolerances, I remeber those Fender Leads noting the sloppiness of many of them. That's probably part of what fueled my dislike for buying names, it said Fender so it had to be good I think was the concept and I never found one I liked.

I once used an expired driver's license I had for a shim...I used the part with my name on it so if it ever got stolen I would have proof it was mine. Talk about a Perry mason moment huh? "Your honor, if you remove the neck you will see the guitar belonged to me"

As for attention to detail, well imho part of the problem is machines are taking over and they only do what they are told. I am/was cnc certified and I think part of the reason I didn't stick with being a machinist was I didn't want to be a machine operator. I was a foolish kid and wasn't willing to put in my time, I wanted to go right to a model/prototype shop

[Uncle E]

I have to laugh at myself for your comment 'give or take 2 mm, who cares'

I think he's being facetious.

FWIW, the Tele Deluxe I built using a 70's Japanese knock-off body (4-bolt), "Power Sound" humbuckers (as found in early Ibanez's), and Chandler neck is the best Tele Deluxe I've ever played. In fact, when I swapped out the Chandler for a Fender reissue 72 Deluxe neck, I liked it considerably less.

[Hink]

I have to laugh at myself for your comment 'give or take 2 mm, who cares'

I think he's being facetious.

FWIW, the Tele Deluxe I built using a 70's Japanese knock-off body (4-bolt), "Power Sound" humbuckers (as found in early Ibanez's), and Chandler neck is the best Tele Deluxe I've ever played. In fact, when I swapped out the Chandler for a Fender reissue 72 Deluxe neck, I liked it considerably less.

That's what you get for messing with perfection

What's your take on the three bolt fender necks?

[susiwong]

oh I have no doubt that Fender used similar tolerances, I remeber those Fender Leads noting the sloppiness of many of them. That's probably part of what fueled my dislike for buying names, it said Fender so it had to be good I think was the concept and I never found one I liked.

I once used an expired driver's license I had for a shim...I used the part with my name on it so if it ever got stolen I would have proof it was mine. Talk about a Perry mason moment huh? "Your honor, if you remove the neck you will see the guitar belonged to me"

As for attention to detail, well imho part of the problem is machines are taking over and they only do what they are told. I am/was cnc certified and I think part of the reason I didn't stick with being a machinist was I didn't want to be a machine operator. I was a foolish kid and wasn't willing to put in my time, I wanted to go right to a model/prototype shop

@ the license ...
While I don't think good production line guitars (e.g. MIJ Ibanez, ESP) can hold a candle to a good hand-built instrument, I have to admit precision and consistency are a lot better than in the G or F custom shops.
Which matters with mail orders I guess.
Still, I prefer to play an instrument before purchase and rather take some months to find a keeper ...
Ymmv,
susiwong

[woodster]

Next 6 stringy thing for me will likely be some sort of Tele.
I don't have a Tele guitar yet, but think one would be good to have.
Any opinions on the current Fender models ?