Zen: A few questions and issues

[jens]

I don't know which of these points have already been discussed so apologies in advance, just in case...


+ with some plugins that have some internal program structure (so far I have experienced it with sample-based instruments such as Sampletank and Dimension) I can't seem to load these programs into Zen in plugin mode. It somehow works in standalone mode though

+ when switching between bank slots it sometimes takes quite some time until the sound is loaded (depending on the plugin) - could there perhaps be an option to keep the plugins for the slots in ram?

+ when switching between the slots, while note-on signals are being transmitted, some plugins (e.g. SQ8L) keep playing these notes when switching back to them - could there perhaps be an option to send all notes off when switching?

+ what sound device does the standalone version use? Is there any way to reduce the latency?

+ why is there no preset-browser (including load/save options) for plugins that don't have their own one? As it is now I have to seperately load the plugin in a host that offers these functions just to keep the modification of a preset (or to save a new one) - or am I missing something?

[Big Tick]

+ with some plugins that have some internal program structure (so far I have experienced it with sample-based instruments such as Sampletank and Dimension) I can't seem to load these programs into Zen in plugin mode. It somehow works in standalone mode though

This is weird since there is no difference at all between the plugin and the standalone. The only thing I can think of, is that you have an older version of the plugin lying around, and your host is using it instead of the latest one.

when switching between bank slots it sometimes takes quite some time until the sound is loaded (depending on the plugin) - could there perhaps be an option to keep the plugins for the slots in ram?

Zen already does that. It caches loaded plugins, so that the next time you request a preset, it can play it instantly. The cache size is defined in the zen.properties file, feel free to increase it here:

Code: Select all

# The number of cached plugins
zen.pluginCacheSize: 2

when switching between the slots, while note-on signals are being transmitted, some plugins (e.g. SQ8L) keep playing these notes when switching back to them - could there perhaps be an option to send all notes off when switching?

Yes, good idea.

+ what sound device does the standalone version use? Is there any way to reduce the latency?

OK, here is a public statement about the standalone: this thing was initially intented for my own tests only. This means I actually plan to remove it from the Zen distribution, as you can the same functionality (and much better) using savihost.

To answer your question, it supports Asio, DirectSound and MME, but it is not optimized for low-latency playback.

+ why is there no preset-browser (including load/save options) for plugins that don't have their own one? As it is now I have to seperately load the plugin in a host that offers these functions just to keep the modification of a preset (or to save a new one) - or am I missing something?

Once you're done with your modifications you could simply import the preset into Zen. It will ask you to confirm because there is already a preset with the same name, but if you go ahead, your preset will be saved in Zen and show up with its friends in the list.

The reason why there is no preset browser is that it wouldn't work consistently. For instance, it will not work with Ace or Zebra. Why is that ? Simply because these synths (and many, many others) have no concept of a preset "bank", as defined by VST. To their host, they claim to have only 1 preset.

For synths that have a preset bank, but no UI to load/save a preset, or rename a preset, or even select a preset in the list, here is the workaround:
- to load a preset or a bank, drop a fxp or fxb in Zen search results list while the plugin is selected. If you drop a fxp file, it will automatically be added to Zen. If you drop a fxb file, it will be sent to the plugin
- to rename a preset (note that you only rename the Zen-managed version of the preset), select the preset and double-click its name (in Zen bottom right area). Obviously this only works for Zen local presets, not for the public ones.
- to browse through presets in the plugin bank, click on the plugin title bar to give it focus, and then use the left/right keyboard arrow keys.

This said, I could probably make these features more easily accessible.

[No_Use]

edit:

I see Tick has replied already during I posted.

+ why is there no preset-browser (including load/save options) for plugins that don't have their own one? As it is now I have to seperately load the plugin in a host that offers these functions just to keep the modification of a preset (or to save a new one) - or am I missing something?

+1

[jens]

Thank you very much, sir!

This is weird since there is no difference at all between the plugin and the standalone. The only thing I can think of, is that you have an older version of the plugin lying around, and your host is using it instead of the latest one.

dunno, the problem seems to be that saving is generally very unreliable here (or I simply haven't understood yet how it actually works) - I tried to save an already existing preset (because of the missing file-browser issue) and that didn't work either, so I assumed it wasn't implemented yet.

I once again tried hammering away on the save-button for a quarter of an hour or so, but apart from ocassionally switching it to auto-save not much happened (once, while being set to auto-save, it went through all presets, asking me wether I wanted to say them anyway though they already existed)


I use the latest available version.

[Big Tick]

Ah, yes, what happens is, if the preset already exists (e.g, it has the same name, and the same data), then any attempt to import (e.g, save) it will silently be ignored. This is another thing that should be turned into an option, I know (add one more entry to the todo list)

[jens]

Yes, but the problem is the data isn't identical at all... and I tried once again with the standalone and it worked immediately.

I'll try another host now.

[jens]

No, same result...


the plugin I just tried to sae a modified preset for was AZR3 which can be found here:

http://untermkittel.de/rumpelrausch/?PLUGINS

[Big Tick]

Don't know then, as it works fine for me (using asHost). While I was at it, I just uploaded the AZR3 presets.

[jens]

You managed to load, modify and then save an AZR3 preset from within asHost?

[jens]

This is weird since there is no difference at all between the plugin and the standalone.

There must be some significant difference after all.

I now tried with asHost and it's the same... re-saving existing presets generally only works in Zen standalone. I also ran asHost in admin-mode and in XP compatability mode - but that didn't help either. Saving new presets works fine with Zen VST though.

I'm on Win7 64 bit.



b.t.w.: when attempting to save existing presets Zen should imo (perhaps optionally) ask me whether I want to replace the existing preset and if the choice is 'no', then subsequently ask for a new name.

[Big Tick]

You managed to load, modify and then save an AZR3 preset from within asHost?

Ah, no, you're right, this doesn't work. Thank you for pointing it out, I'll check what happens.

[jens]

Phew, so it's not just me then...


this is really important - almost mandatory - for live-usage, because even if you just want to change the volume of a preset right now you need to open the plugin in Zen standalone for it.

[jens]

Zen already does that. It caches loaded plugins, so that the next time you request a preset, it can play it instantly. The cache size is defined in the zen.properties file, feel free to increase it here:

Code: Select all

# The number of cached plugins
zen.pluginCacheSize: 2

Is this really the number of plugins which are kept in cache?

I initially thought that was a mb size and simply added two zeros. But whenever Zen reinitiates after the properties file has been changed, it sets the number back to 16 (I tried 1600, then 300, then 99)

In any case the problem isn't the number of cached plugins for me but rather the size of the cache, it seems. A 200mb piano simply takes too loag to load.

[Big Tick]

No this is the number of plugins. It maxes at 16, which is why it changed back to this when you restarted.


Which Zen-managed plugin has a 200Mb piano ?

[jens]

I mainly use one for Dimension (so it's SFZ based) - however switching to Kinisis for instance can take a bit too long as well (one instance of it weighs ~80mb)