Sandy Bridge Motherboard Advice P67 or Z68 DPC Latency

[Ashe37]

Oh really? I could have sworn that Sandy Bridge had more tricks up it's sleeve.

Sandy Bridge- EP with 8 cores is only going to be available as a Xeon processor and intended for servers. The i7 version is only 6 cores. Not that big of a deal considering there are already ten-core Xeons (Westmere -EX) available.... of course, they are $3,200 for a 2.0 Ghz model (Intel Xeon E7-8850) and there aren't motherboards out for these existing processors yet. Motherboards for them are likely to be server boards only, considering that this already happened with the 8-core Nehalem based Xeons that came out last year. Expect the 8-core Sandy Bridge-EP to be the same... i.e. nothing to worry about because you can't build a workstation using them.

And here's my prediction for the Bulldozer architecture: It will not show much significant improvement for audio processing over the current AMD architecture in most DAWs because Bulldozer is doubling the number of integer processing units in a CPU core and most DAWs and most VSTs are processing audio using floating point processing. As someone with years of experience in software that is even more intense in floating point than DAWs- namely, 3d animation software- I can tell you it will speed up the UI but not actual processing. The Athlon- i.e. entire AMD architecture- processors were very competitive with Intel processors from when they came out until very recently for 3d animation because they had a dual-issue FPU.

[egbert]

Those pages I linked to put the 8 core Sandy Bridge E chips in the high performance consumer category - did you look at those roadmaps for desktops? I would agree that they probably won't be cheap but there has typically been a pretty close relationship between high end desktop and server chips - the Xeon equivalents of i7s etc, the Athlon64 eqivalents of the Opterons.

What you seem to be predicting (in spite of everything in those two threads I linked to which directly contradicts what you are saying with no references to back you up) is that the entire span of the Sandy Bridge generation is not going to involve shipping anything priced above 300 odd dollars except for the server market. Personally, I doubt it.

Ivy Bridge involves a die shrink and if Intel wants to make more money out of the enthusiast sector in the next 12 to 18 months on the current process they will have to throw people in that market a series of chips which beat the 2600K by a substantial margin. Do you think they are developing and releasing the x79 chipset /LGA 2011 socket with the idea that they will become collectibles due to their rarity? The extra memory bandwidth from 4 channels is there to feed more cores. Since when do Intel not want to sell a heap of expensive chips for enthusiasts, gamers etc?

[Shabdahbriah]

... Bulldozer is weeks away and Intel will launch their 8 core CPUs well before the end of next year.

The first generation Bulldozer chips ARE supposed to out this quarter (3rd) yes.

They'll be directly compatible upgrades for socket G34 (8 and 12 core Opteron 6000 series) mobo's, but with up to 16 cores.

The 8 core 6000 series (6128) is currently around $269 +/- (US) and supports quad channel RAM (even non-ECC UDIMM's), hopefully the Bulldozers will also.

The second gen Bulldozer will use the G32 socket (4000 series) , and the 3rd gen Bulldozer (20+ cores) will be a new socket proposed for mid/late-2012.

Though comments I've read about the 3rd gen state it's a "replacement" for the preceding two sockets, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, as the G34 is new as of March 2010, and is geared towards currently higher-end dual and quad proc (not to mention blades) servers/workstations, which appear to have been rather successful thus far.

[2c]

[The Chubu]

Bulldozer is doubling the number of integer processing units in a CPU core and most DAWs and most VSTs are processing audio using floating point processing.

Ehm... Bulldozer architecture schematics show two 128 bit FP units per module, 4 module for the 8 core version.

And those two 128 bit FP units (Flex FP as AMD calls them) can be combined to proccess a 256 bit FP instruction for say, AVX instructions.

It should be pretty good for FP actually.

EDIT: and from what i've been reading, K10 architecture has only 1 128 bit FPU.

[Ashe37]

What you seem to be predicting (in spite of everything in those two threads I linked to which directly contradicts what you are saying with no references to back you up) is that the entire span of the Sandy Bridge generation is not going to involve shipping anything priced above 300 odd dollars except for the server market. Personally, I doubt it.

Ivy Bridge involves a die shrink and if Intel wants to make more money out of the enthusiast sector in the next 12 to 18 months on the current process they will have to throw people in that market a series of chips which beat the 2600K by a substantial margin. Do you think they are developing and releasing the x79 chipset /LGA 2011 socket with the idea that they will become collectibles due to their rarity? The extra memory bandwidth from 4 channels is there to feed more cores. Since when do Intel not want to sell a heap of expensive chips for enthusiasts, gamers etc?

Nope, there are six-core Sandy Bridge- EP desktop CPUs coming. But the eight-core Sandy Bridge-EP CPUs are not desktop CPUs, they are server CPUs. The article you linked to even says the eight-core CPUs are server CPUs:

The chips are destined to make their way into 1-way and 2-way servers which use the Patsburg chipset and the LGA 2011 socket.

So yes, the eight-core Sandy Bridge- EP processors are server CPUs. There is a six-core i7 Extreme CPU using the same socket that will be out in Q4 as well.

[egbert]

http://www.behardware.com/news/lire/11-04-2011/

If you read this discussion you see where I'm coming from. The decision to release some desktop/workstation versions of anything that is initially targeted at servers is one Intel can pull the trigger on anytime it likes. I don't see any reason to surmise that they will not release anything faster than the current SKUs in the Sandy Bridge line before Ivy Bridge hits the fan in Q4 2012.

And another thing ... you say server, I say shmerver.

DAWs with 1x socket Opteron or Xeon are not servers - they are workstations and so are 2x socket Opteron or Xeon. These will be available at the higher end one way or the other. Whether Intel pushes its higher end kit out or not depends on the competition obviously. When Athlon64 X2s stole the show from Intel's Pentium series back in 2005 Intel came back with the Core series and threw all their latest process tricks into a single generation to regain the ascendancy. If AMD had not put such a competitive chip out there they would have made more gradual innovations and milked the market for all they were worth. AMD - despite your assertions about Bulldozer - has new kit out this year which is highly modular - it is designed to scale to large numbers of cores. Intel will do what they can to retain market share against anything AMD throw at them. This year with ARM and Android and Nvidia's Tegra stealing a lot of market share at the other end (netbooks are down 40% for example) I would expect Intel to act aggressively to preserve their margins at the higher end.

[Ashe37]

http://www.behardware.com/news/lire/11-04-2011/

If you read this discussion you see where I'm coming from. The decision to release some desktop/workstation versions of anything that is initially targeted at servers is one Intel can pull the trigger on anytime it likes. I don't see any reason to surmise that they will not release anything faster than the current SKUs in the Sandy Bridge line before Ivy Bridge hits the fan in Q4 2012.

And another thing ... you say server, I say shmerver.

DAWs with 1x socket Opteron or Xeon are not servers - they are workstations and so are 2x socket Opteron or Xeon. These will be available at the higher end one way or the other. Whether Intel pushes its higher end kit out or not depends on the competition obviously. When Athlon64 X2s stole the show from Intel's Pentium series back in 2005 Intel came back with the Core series and threw all their latest process tricks into a single generation to regain the ascendancy. If AMD had not put such a competitive chip out there they would have made more gradual innovations and milked the market for all they were worth. AMD - despite your assertions about Bulldozer - has new kit out this year which is highly modular - it is designed to scale to large numbers of cores. Intel will do what they can to retain market share against anything AMD throw at them. This year with ARM and Android and Nvidia's Tegra stealing a lot of market share at the other end (netbooks are down 40% for example) I would expect Intel to act aggressively to preserve their margins at the higher end.

When i say something is a server CPU, I'm not saying that just because it is a Xeon or Opteron. I know what a workstation is, I test workstations in my capacity as a technical writer and reviewer. You can't build a workstation- not even a DAW- when there isn't a motherboard meant for taking a GPU.

There are already 8-core Xeons and have been for a year. Intel is also shipping ten-core Xeons. There are no workstation motherboards to take these processors. No one is shipping a workstation based off of these processors. But you can buy servers made with them.... I've only seen Intel systems based off the six-core Xeons as workstations. (Even workstations with two six-core Xeons) Also, the eight and ten-core processors that are already shipping are much slower clock speed than what you'd want in a workstation- the Nehalem-based 8-core Xeons are 1.8, 2.0 and 2.26 GHz and the 10-core Xeon E7s are 2.0-2.4 Ghz. The earlier 8-cores are limited to DDR3- 1066 and the newer 10-cores are limited to DDR3-1333.... both of those would limit workstation performance. If these existing eight and ten core processors could be built into workstations, then someone would be selling them, and they would be telling me I need to look at them because they'd be even faster in some tests than the current fastest single socket machine I've tested, the Boxx Technologies 4860 Extreme. (Core i7 Extreme @ 4.15 GHz, Quadro 5000) But there aren't. Judging from the TDP for this new processor, its going to be clocked lower as well, and its slated for multisocket servers (i.e. 4 socket servers). If they were planning on putting these new processors into workstations, then they would have done it with the processors they already have.

[monkeymanx]

This thread was not about any of this. It was not about AMD either. I was just asking for mother board recommendations. How did this get so far from the topic? Also I don't care what will be out at the end of the year because then at the end of the year I should just wait for the next best thing. I'm looking at what is available now.

[Ashe37]

This thread was not about any of this. It was not about AMD either. I was just asking for mother board recommendations. How did this get so far from the topic? Also I don't care what will be out at the end of the year because then at the end of the year I should just wait for the next best thing. I'm looking at what is available now.

If you're looking for overclocking, look for a board that has as many phases to the VRM for the CPU as you can afford. The Gigabyte mentioned earlier, or these might be ok. Unfortunately, the z68 boards haven't been out long enough for there to be a 'tried and true' solution.

[egbert]

@ ashe

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/displa ... _Ebay.html

Here's just one of several articles I found searching for Sandy Bridge E. This series will sit on quad channel LGA2011 x79 chipset boards. It is for "enthusiasts" and will initially be 4 and 6 core but there is a lot of discussion of 8 core versions around.

@ OP - if you start a thread and discussion moves beyond answering your initial question ... welcome to KVR

[Ashe37]

@ ashe

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/displa ... _Ebay.html

Here's just one of several articles I found searching for Sandy Bridge E. This series will sit on quad channel LGA2011 x79 chipset boards. It is for "enthusiasts" and will initially be 4 and 6 core but there is a lot of discussion of 8 core versions around.

@ OP - if you start a thread and discussion moves beyond answering your initial question ... welcome to KVR

Yes and that article even says that specific unit is 1.6 Ghz and DDR3-1066. Because they mention both that eng sample on ebay and the x79 chipset in the article doesn't mean that the chip isn't a Xeon- the article itself says its either an 'Extreme Edition or a Xeon'- it is a rather tenuous connectino to figure they are making an 8-core Sandy Bridge for desktop use when Intel's own slides (from another link you posted) say "up to six cores". If they were intending the eight core procs for the desktop, whether consumer PC or workstations, it would sure as sin say "EGIHT cores" is letters six feet high and they would be pumping out press releases every ten minutes about their upcoming EIGHT CORE DESKTOP PROCESSORS!!!!!!1!!!11!!1!ONE!!!!! and how it will be the fastest awesomest extremeiest Core i7 Extreme EVAH!!!!!11!!1!!!!

[egbert]

That doesn't follow at all. Like most companies (eg Apple) who wish to sell their current products, Intel doesn't generally tip it's hand on all forthcoming models - hence all the leaked roadmaps from 3rd parties and the speculation. Of course they need to send engineering samples of CPUs and chipsets to 3rd parties or the products will not be ready for market in a timely fashion so they can't keep too tight a lid on what is coming. Another thing is that the various roadmaps and slides that are all over the hardware sites are from different dates so they don't necessarily reflect the current state of play.

I don't claim any certain knowledge about this - geez - Intel's marketing people may not have even decided on the what and when of forthcoming releases. A quick search turns up lots of discussion of what is likely to be released. You seem quite categorical about this - if you are wrong, what will you do? Drop your virtual pants and do three laps of KVR doing your impression of Vincent Donofrio on the parade ground in Full Metal Jacket? (j/k)
(PMing me an abject apology would do fine)

Let's wait and see.

[Ashe37]

I don't claim any certain knowledge about this - geez - Intel's marketing people may not have even decided on the what and when of forthcoming releases. A quick search turns up lots of discussion of what is likely to be released. You seem quite categorical about this - if you are wrong, what will you do? Drop your virtual pants and do three laps of KVR doing your impression of Vincent Donofrio on the parade ground in Full Metal Jacket? (j/k)
(PMing me an abject apology would do fine)

Let's wait and see.

sounds like a good idea. Long as you remember me if I'm the one that is correct.

[monkeymanx]

So I ordered everything minus the motherboard. I think I'm going to get a Z68 motherboard, I'm just not sure which one yet. Here is the build:

Intel i7 2600k
Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler
COOLER MASTER HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP
Corsair HX Series 750w PSU CMPSU-750HX
EVGA 01G-P3-1372-TR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) Superclocked 1GB
Western Digital RE4 WD5003ABYX 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s (x2)
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner
CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (x2)

I think this will be a pretty healthy machine. I just have to decide on what Z68 based board to get.

[monkeymanx]

I'm pretty much set on the ASUS P8Z68-V PRO now. Seems like a good overall board and after reading reviews is pretty much the best board for overclocking out there at this time. Just have to wait for newegg to get them back in stock. mwave.com has them but I haven't used them before.