Questions about drums performing x programming

[dark_virus]

When programming drums (electronic drums), I like them to be "humanly possible", I'm not talking about shuffle or so but hits that can't be played at the same time (since most drummers have only 2 arms ).


So, my questions are:

1 - When a real drummer performs a tom fill, is it humanly possible to have, say, a snare hit between them? When the drummer performs the drum fill does he concentrate only in the toms? What's the most usual way? IE: a kick-snare-kick-snare 4x4 beat with a tom fill that starts on the third bar of a 4 bar section. Should I skip the snares?

2 - Is it humanly possible to have a snare roll along a tom fill? (maybe using his feet, a pedal or whatever, I dunno...)

3 - Finally, some tom fills ends with a crash cymbal along the first kickdrum on the next bar. Is it normal (from a drummer perspective) to put a low tom along this first kickdrum/crash?


These questions may be stupid, but I really don't have experience with live instruments and their performers.

[Inceptic]

1 - When a real drummer performs a tom fill, is it humanly possible to have, say, a snare hit between them? When the drummer performs the drum fill does he concentrate only in the toms? What's the most usual way? IE: a kick-snare-kick-snare 4x4 beat with a tom fill that starts on the third bar of a 4 bar section. Should I skip the snares?

Generally, hitting toms in sixteenth note patterns (sort of like rolling and descending from left to right on the set) will sound odd if you shove snare hits in between randomly. You can either start the fill with the snare (single or double stroke) and have the snare come back in each beat before going back to the toms (if the fill lasts more than one beat). Or you can research paradiddles. Syncopated rhythmic figures have good success at integrating snare and toms too.

2 - Is it humanly possible to have a snare roll along a tom fill? (maybe using his feet, a pedal or whatever, I dunno...)

Snare and toms can only be struck by the hands. Snare rolls require both hands, but you could shove single tom hits in between. You can also research ghost notes. You can do kick-rolls on the feet.

3 - Finally, some tom fills ends with a crash cymbal along the first kickdrum on the next bar. Is it normal (from a drummer perspective) to put a low tom along this first kickdrum/crash?

Hmmm...it would depend. Does this tom-kick-crash repeat itself every measure or two? In that case it would be more part of the next groove than the previous fill, so it may sound good and natural in the transition. Cymbals and toms are struck with the hands so it is doable too.

[jancivil]

1 - When a real drummer performs a tom fill, is it humanly possible to have, say, a snare hit between them? When the drummer performs the drum fill does he concentrate only in the toms? What's the most usual way? IE: a kick-snare-kick-snare 4x4 beat with a tom fill that starts on the third bar of a 4 bar section. Should I skip the snares?
2 - Is it humanly possible to have a snare roll along a tom fill? (maybe using his feet, a pedal or whatever, I dunno...)

Generally, a drummer doing a dramatic toms fill is more or less focused on that; but there are going to be exceptions. That you are asking the question indicates to me you should avoid that, ie., you've never done it. It's going to be pretty virtuosic. If it's doable with two hands, it's viable, but unless it's of a piece with the overall level of virtuosity, it might seem ridiculous. Not that there's anything wrong with ridiculous but you're going for plausible I guess.

3 - Finally, some tom fills ends with a crash cymbal along the first kickdrum on the next bar. Is it normal (from a drummer perspective) to put a low tom along this first kickdrum/crash?

Not such a problem, I do that one. Or the snare at the same time.

These questions may be stupid, but I really don't have experience with live instruments and their performers.

I argue for gaining that experience all the time. Good writers will be informed by this experience. It's going to show when you aren't. In the olden days, it was de rigeur to get your chops together on your instrument before you go calling yourself a composer.

[kbaccki]

Go to youtube and dig up some videos of drummers... there's tons of lesson-oriented stuff there that you might get some tips from... even if the drummer isn't great, it should be good enough to see what a real drummer does for certain types of beats, fills, etc. Just start with the basic stuff till you see how the drummer coordinates hands and feet.

For example:

So easy a 3 year old can do it: (0:51... priceless)

Some Mitch Mitchell vibe:

Good examples of playing with time: (this guy's a monster)

etc.

[Lost_Highway]

I'd second the suggestion to check out tutorial vids on YouTube: I did a load of this late last year, plus reading articles on drumming websites. I was doing this for the same reason, to find out what was humanly possible, and it was a real eye-opener as to what a good drummer is capable of. This video blew my mind - some guy .

I'd also recommend reading up on drum rudiments and applying them to your programming - not just to the snare, but all around the kit. I've managed to get some pretty complicated sounding interactions by playing paradiddles, paradiddle-diddles and so on around the kit.

Oh and snare rolls are perfectly possible with one hand only and I'm not just talking about gravity rolls.

My programming is now pretty virtuosic (in terms of the skill of my imaginary drummer), but it's not out of context being progressive rock.

[dark_virus]

Thanks guys (and gal ). That was exactly what I was looking for.

Does this tom-kick-crash repeat itself every measure or two?

No. I was talking about only this first beat (tom-kick-crash) as the end of the tom fill at the previous bar. This low tom wouldn't repeat in the next bars, until the next tom fill end.

[kbaccki]

One more thing I would recommend, from a drummer's perspective, and this is purely a subjective stylistic thing... keep it simple where simple is what's required. For example, playing a straight eight groove followed by a really complicated tom fill to me is the mark of a.) a newbie drummer, b.) a newbie drum programmer, or c.) a drummer that just likes to hear him/herself play. It all depends on context, of course, and complexity of the tuneage... like prog rock, jazz, fusion jazz, etc. is often complex and your best Neil Peart, Dave Weckl, or Philly Joe Jones is appropriate. For most "simple" stuff like pop, rock, dance, etc., a drummer/drum programmer should really keep it simple, and more or less support the foundation of the tune, if you will. Drum solos and/or fills that sound like portions of drum solos are frowned upon. Which is why, I'm sorry to say, I was never a huge fan of Keith Moon's style, though I certainly appreciated what he brought to the world of rock music as a whole. Check out the video of that 3 year old... he's "in the pocket" as they say... which is exactly what you want for that tune.