Forget iPad, get a Windows 7 tablet!

[bM3w]

It's probably still almost a year away before Windows 8 will hit the shelves, but what I read and saw so far is really impressive. My hopes are that with Windows 8 all those "touch apps" we know from the iPad are coming to the PC, because for me there's no way I'm gonna waste a single cent on an Apple product.

I agree that this interface looks nice, but Microsoft has said that these touch apps will be coded in HTML5 + Javascript. If they don't also allow low-latency C++ apps to run as touch apps you can forget about anything interesting in the audio realm.

I guess we'll learn more about those details at BUILD in Septemeber. Right now it's a little earlier to discuss. We'll see...

[IncarnateX]

This setup is for people who want to use the same instruments and software as they do on their PC, but with the bonus of portability and low cost.

Then a more suitable title would be "Forget laptops/netbooks, get a windows 7 tablet!"

If the issue ain't touch control, there are no valid comparison with the iPad. People do not buy iPad solely because of portability.

Anyway, I do think the windows tablet seems interesting in its own way. Before I got my iPad I was into neetbooks and if I had stayed at this course, I am pretty sure I would have replaced it the moment the win tablet was released.

[bmot]

This is really interesting, which vst's do you use on this and how many can you get away with using at once?

that's hard to say, depending on the instrument. but i just tried a few tests using Chainer Free.

Firstly Sylenth, as this is one of my favourite VSTi's. I used a standard preset #267 called Voyager. It's a long pad. Playing and holding 6 keys (that's 60 voices - s 2 oscillators with 5 voices each), and activating all Sylenth effects, just over 50% CPU is used. Playing and holding 8 keys on NubiB3 (Hammond clone), with both of the separate effects in different insert slots (that's Spinner and VFX) 35% CPU is utlilised.

As I only intend to use it for live playing these tests show that it can handle what it needs to do for me. It won't replace my i7 desktop anytime soon, but is a nice option in the training room for when I want an alternative to the Korg CX or Vermona combo organ. I can also route the audio from these real organs through this if I need effects.

However, I get the distinct impression most people here aren't convinced

[9headshydra]

Firstly Sylenth, as this is one of my favourite VSTi's. I used a standard preset #267 called Voyager. It's a long pad. Playing and holding 6 keys (that's 60 voices - s 2 oscillators with 5 voices each), and activating all Sylenth effects, just over 50% CPU is used. Playing and holding 8 keys on NubiB3 (Hammond clone), with both of the separate effects in different insert slots (that's Spinner and VFX) 35% CPU is utlilised

.

exactly what i'm thinking :

1,66 GHz Intel® Atom™ N450 Pineview + win 7 = underpowered device in 2011,

with ipad 1, I can run something like nanostudio wich offer me up to 15 instruments (drum sampler or polyphonic synth/sampler) with up to 4 midi track per instrument, up to 4 fx per audio track (eq, comp, delay, chorus, flanger, reverb, bit cruscher, saturation) with a mixer (up to 45 audio bus, 2 sends, 1 master) ... in a way an effective tool to compose music,

on a little 8 instruments project (4 samplers + 4 synths) with about 2-3 fx per instrument, the CPU meter of ipad is only around 15 %

what is crazy considering the device (A4 monocore 1ghz, 256 mo of ram),

at the moment none other tactil tablet can offer me this (perhaps a well programmed software can do that on a win tablet, but programmers need an attractive plateform to code, and the appstore is very attractive at the moment).

and i just can't imagine what you can expect to do on Ipad X when android and win tablet will begin to offer what i can do nowaday with ipad 1.

[bmot]

iPads are nice gadgets, definitely. But I like using my own VST instruments (after all I have already paid for and learned how to use them). I also want to use the VST effects i've paid for and know how to use. I want to be able to transport my presets between different machines. I like using the same interface and software between machines. For me this elevates a Windows 7 tablet beyond "gimmick" or "gadget" into something I can really use.

As I have already said, I only want to play 1 instrument at a time. I only have 2 hands. So whether it can run more than one is irrelevant to me. If I want to do sequencing i'll use my laptop or desktop, not an underpowered device like this or any tablet that's around right now (iPad included).

I can't see the iPad breaking out of the "nice gadget" category at the moment. But maybe, in a future iPad incarnation, Ableton will decide to make an iPad version of Live. That would be the start of something amazing. Someone has tried something similar, I have no idea if it is any good:

http://www.indamixx.com/

[The Chase]

Firstly Sylenth, as this is one of my favourite VSTi's. I used a standard preset #267 called Voyager. It's a long pad. Playing and holding 6 keys (that's 60 voices - s 2 oscillators with 5 voices each), and activating all Sylenth effects, just over 50% CPU is used. Playing and holding 8 keys on NubiB3 (Hammond clone), with both of the separate effects in different insert slots (that's Spinner and VFX) 35% CPU is utlilised

.

exactly what i'm thinking :

1,66 GHz Intel® Atom™ N450 Pineview + win 7 = underpowered device in 2011,

with ipad 1, I can run something like nanostudio wich offer me up to 15 instruments (drum sampler or polyphonic synth/sampler) with up to 4 midi track per instrument, up to 4 fx per audio track (eq, comp, delay, chorus, flanger, reverb, bit cruscher, saturation) with a mixer (up to 45 audio bus, 2 sends, 1 master) ... in a way an effective tool to compose music,

on a little 8 instruments project (4 samplers + 4 synths) with about 2-3 fx per instrument, the CPU meter of ipad is only around 15 %

what is crazy considering the device (A4 monocore 1ghz, 256 mo of ram),

at the moment none other tactil tablet can offer me this (perhaps a well programmed software can do that on a win tablet, but programmers need an attractive plateform to code, and the appstore is very attractive at the moment).

and i just can't imagine what you can expect to do on Ipad X when android and win tablet will begin to offer what i can do nowaday with ipad 1.

I think a difference is that, while these mobile solutions are fun, the sound quality is essentially nowhere near the favorite VSTs in our collections, and when I get the results recorded I find myself underwhelmed in the studio. Things like nanostudio are fun on a bus or in a hotel room, but for actual usage, even live, I can't see myself using mobile tablets/phones for anything but input devices.

[9headshydra]

About nanostudio sourd quality it dépends on the samples i use mainly

And the synth (certainly not the best sounding one I agree) is pleasant to my ears

2 osc or 1 sample, multimode filter with adsr env (reverse env ability), 4 lfo ...

So many features.some vst synth don't have and let you create.various sounds

Add to this you can copy and paste audio files between various apps (synth, recorder, sample editor, Drum machine....)

And definitively i can say iPad becomes more than a gadget

At this point i consider it more Like a mpc under steroids

You can use.midi controler, mic, send midi export separate audio tracks, ...

Then mix all this in your main DAW if you want,

Maybe I'm already too old but 20 years ago many peoples produce good music with less than that



To the OP : i understand your point of view and iPad is not made for your needs ,obviously, but i'm not sure the configuration the wepad has is interesting in your situation,

It seems very weak to be pleasant to use under win7 with heavy vsti

The EXO UI seems gorgeous !!!

[vincent66]

This is really interesting, which vst's do you use on this and how many can you get away with using at once?

that's hard to say, depending on the instrument. but i just tried a few tests using Chainer Free.

Firstly Sylenth, as this is one of my favourite VSTi's. I used a standard preset #267 called Voyager. It's a long pad. Playing and holding 6 keys (that's 60 voices - s 2 oscillators with 5 voices each), and activating all Sylenth effects, just over 50% CPU is used. Playing and holding 8 keys on NubiB3 (Hammond clone), with both of the separate effects in different insert slots (that's Spinner and VFX) 35% CPU is utlilised.

However, I get the distinct impression most people here aren't convinced

Hmm, that doesn't seem bad at all, interestingly, it is rumoured that the new Kronos is powered by an Atom, so I guess if the code is sleek enough you should be able to get quite a bit out of it.
I do have an iPad (we had to buy one for the company) and after the initial flurry of buying apps like Nanostudio, Funkbox and Morphwiz I tend to play patience (solitaire) on it and use it for fast access to the web! Not hugely impressed and I'm not keen on being tied into a platform and it's buying mechanism!

[bmanic]

One major advantage when it comes to portability of the iPad over any PC slate is the huge battery life.

I've never seen any windows slate lasting longer than 3 hours when using something as CPU draining as music software.

Nanostudio + iPad is an excellent combination and even the sound quality is definitely good enough for basic sketching of songs. Heck, I'd use the included synthesizer without problems in commercial projects. Sure it's aliasing quite a bit and can be a bit rough around the edges but so does a Nord Lead as well (nasty buggers those), that never prevented anybody from using them in tracks.

Sometimes less is more and when it comes to Nanostudio it's exactly what I feel. IMHO the app is almost perfect.. almost. Let's see what Matt has in store for the actual native iPad version or the inevitable Nanostudio 2.0.

Cheers!
bManic

[IncarnateX]

Nanostudio + iPad is an excellent combination and even the sound quality is definitely good enough for basic sketching of songs.

I'd say it goes much further than just basic sketcing. With apps like the ones in my sig, it is rather a question of skills, talent and at a little bit of patience with regard to the copy and paste procedure.

All the iPad-is-a-gimmick-not-suited-for-pro-productions-bla-bla-bla just reveals that people do not own them, don't know crap about them or that they simply are too untalented to make use of it. And if the latter is the case, then they probably can not make decent music on PCs either.

The Gorillaz have just finished an album, "The Fall", using an iPad and they are pro aren't they?

Here are the details about what apps they were using

http://thefall.gorillaz.com/

So screw the crap guys! It tells more about your (lack of) knowledge and skills than the potential of the iPad.

[9headshydra]

I'd say it goes much further than just basic sketcing. With apps like the ones in my sig, it is rather a question of skills, talent and at a little bit of patience with regard to the copy and paste procedure.

like everything in art or music, it needs work and experience

sure our desktop or win/macos daw are very powerful, but ipad just free my mind about composition, it lets me return to the basics, the essential thing in music : to generate emotion,

i'm not afraid by technology and all the gears I own but sometime the airbus cockpit we all have in our homestudio can be counterproductive and kill all the inspiration.

push the button and create music 5 seconds later is a wonderfull thing.

[Nokenoku]

One major advantage when it comes to portability of the iPad over any PC slate is the huge battery life.

That's one of the many many reasons, why people should leave the tablet-hype alone and get a proper notebook.

There are performant notebooks with a battery life of over 10h. And if you buy an additional battery, you can use it even longer before recharging.

[Grain Bastard]

One major advantage when it comes to portability of the iPad over any PC slate is the huge battery life.

That's one of the many many reasons, why people should leave the tablet-hype alone and get a proper notebook.

There are performant notebooks with a battery life of over 10h. And if you buy an additional battery, you can use it even longer before recharging.

Why do you troll in this forum???

Seriously, what is your agenda here? You obviously hate everything that this sub-forum offers so why not f**k off and annoy someone else with your holier-than-thou attitude.

Some of us like this kind of 'tablet-hype' and also have a 'proper' laptop as you put it so why not let the threads take shape without the constant attempts to derail a thread with negativity towards the devices.

[bmot]

As others have suggested, I can confirm that battery life is, unfortunately, pretty bad. I can get 4 hours. However, that's enough for evening rehearsals or concerts. I also have a plug for when if needs to be on for longer.

Going back to Chainer, I just thought i'd mention that it has a clever way of handling the parameters and presets: there's a "1" and a "2" button for each insert. Button 1 opens the actual VST(i)'s GUI; button 2 opens a standard Chainer interface with a L/R slider for all the values. So even if the instrument's GUI is unsuitable for touchscreen control, it doesn't matter. By pressing "Preset" at the top corner, the full list of presets comes up. Nice and easy. What a great simple programme it is. Having said that, I wouldn't mind a skin for it with larger buttons.

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/261.html

To those happy with your iPads: no need to bitch. I'm just presenting an alternative option for anyone who is interested in this sort of thing. The title was supposed to grab the attention and encourage debate.

[IncarnateX]

One major advantage when it comes to portability of the iPad over any PC slate is the huge battery life.

That's one of the many many reasons, why people should leave the tablet-hype alone and get a proper notebook.

There are performant notebooks with a battery life of over 10h. And if you buy an additional battery, you can use it even longer before recharging.

Why do you troll in this forum???

Seriously, what is your agenda here? You obviously hate everything that this sub-forum offers so why not f**k off and annoy someone else with your holier-than-thou attitude.

Some of us like this kind of 'tablet-hype' and also have a 'proper' laptop as you put it so why not let the threads take shape without the constant attempts to derail a thread with negativity towards the devices.

HA! Forget it, mate. This guy is about 40% less sensitive to reason than a piece of plywood. I know from experience. Just mute him, but do not answer him, he will see it as an encouragement to continue.