I dont even know where to start. Ive watched several videos on youtube about majors and there relatives (forgot what thats called). I cannot figure it out
theres major c which everyone talks about then what are the other majors? and c major flat what is that? its confusing, even more so when you cant ask questions, Which is why i decided to start a new topic.
what are scales?
when you have a c major and put flat notes in it does that make it a c major flat?
what are the black keys called? why are they there do they make majors sound flat?
are there other majors aside from c? like b major or e major?
So far i know ABCDEFG, And how to locate them on the keyboard. If anyone can give me a good beginning tutorial for absolute beginner id be thankful.
Also are chords the same as keys?
Keys and Scales... Absolute beginner.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
you'll notice there are 12 keys on the piano keyboard.
corresponding to that, there are 12 major, and 12 minor "keys" for each of those keys, each of the notes, within an octave (it may seem counterintuitive that 12 is an octave, which indicates 8, but that's a convention out of history, don't worry about it for now).
this other "keys" term means that there is an organization of other tones, 12 tones in all, are centered per that key note. C major, C# major etc. Each note can be considered as the root of a "key".
all white keys exclusively, from C to C is your C major key, which is represented if you like by the C major scale.
To obtain the self-same relationship of intervals you get with all white keys, but now with other key centers, you define a new key. In written music this is called a key signature, which has signs known as sharps and flats.
C major has none, while the black notes, and black "keys" are designated in writing by these signs.
The 12 key signatures progress by a circle, as proceeding this way adds or subtracts a sharp [#] or flat at each move. (You should google circle of fifths to get a visual at this point.) The sharp direction around the circle proceeds by rising fifths (aka falling fourths).
Key of C has no sharps/flats. You asked after a relative, the term is 'the relative minor'. The one belonging to C is A minor. The major and its relative minor share the same key signature.
One sharp in the key signature obtains a new key, G major - or its relative, E minor . This new key is a fifth above (a fourth below) the C; E minor a fifth above A minor.
Proceed again around the circle, in this 'sharp' direction: 2 sharps = D major or B minor. Et cetera.
Now, conventionally you will not use more than 7 sharps or flats in a signature. At this point, proceeding in the sharp direction you will call the next note of the circle a flat, or a sharp, going the other way around by flats.
EG: 7 sharps obtains C# major. That key note C# is also known as D flat. Db. Here you want to notice that of the 12 keys on the keyboard, 7 are white and 5 are black. In this, 'enharmonic' equivalence, where a sharp can be known as a flat and vice versa, there is an overlap of two in either direction. IE: before you get to C# major, you have two keys, B and F# that can be called Cb and Gb, & vice versa, when you proceed in the flat direction. C, F, Bb, etc., eventually Gb and Cb. This is proceeding by falling fifths (or rising fourths). Refer to your visual now.
Chords are (conventionally) when you have three different notes sounding at the same time (or the chord can be broken and the components separated, if it is indeed identifiable as a chord, it's still a chord). Major chords, minor chords, are built by thirds, C E G is the C major triad. A C E is the A minor triad. These are the root chords for our beginning key, C major and its relative minor.
corresponding to that, there are 12 major, and 12 minor "keys" for each of those keys, each of the notes, within an octave (it may seem counterintuitive that 12 is an octave, which indicates 8, but that's a convention out of history, don't worry about it for now).
this other "keys" term means that there is an organization of other tones, 12 tones in all, are centered per that key note. C major, C# major etc. Each note can be considered as the root of a "key".
all white keys exclusively, from C to C is your C major key, which is represented if you like by the C major scale.
To obtain the self-same relationship of intervals you get with all white keys, but now with other key centers, you define a new key. In written music this is called a key signature, which has signs known as sharps and flats.
C major has none, while the black notes, and black "keys" are designated in writing by these signs.
The 12 key signatures progress by a circle, as proceeding this way adds or subtracts a sharp [#] or flat at each move. (You should google circle of fifths to get a visual at this point.) The sharp direction around the circle proceeds by rising fifths (aka falling fourths).
Key of C has no sharps/flats. You asked after a relative, the term is 'the relative minor'. The one belonging to C is A minor. The major and its relative minor share the same key signature.
One sharp in the key signature obtains a new key, G major - or its relative, E minor . This new key is a fifth above (a fourth below) the C; E minor a fifth above A minor.
Proceed again around the circle, in this 'sharp' direction: 2 sharps = D major or B minor. Et cetera.
Now, conventionally you will not use more than 7 sharps or flats in a signature. At this point, proceeding in the sharp direction you will call the next note of the circle a flat, or a sharp, going the other way around by flats.
EG: 7 sharps obtains C# major. That key note C# is also known as D flat. Db. Here you want to notice that of the 12 keys on the keyboard, 7 are white and 5 are black. In this, 'enharmonic' equivalence, where a sharp can be known as a flat and vice versa, there is an overlap of two in either direction. IE: before you get to C# major, you have two keys, B and F# that can be called Cb and Gb, & vice versa, when you proceed in the flat direction. C, F, Bb, etc., eventually Gb and Cb. This is proceeding by falling fifths (or rising fourths). Refer to your visual now.
Chords are (conventionally) when you have three different notes sounding at the same time (or the chord can be broken and the components separated, if it is indeed identifiable as a chord, it's still a chord). Major chords, minor chords, are built by thirds, C E G is the C major triad. A C E is the A minor triad. These are the root chords for our beginning key, C major and its relative minor.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 2 posts since 31 May, 2011
"all white keys exclusively, from C to C is your C major key, which is represented if you like by the C major scale."
so from c4 to c5 all the white keys (abcdefg) this is a major?
also i thought a major was this
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Also for the 12 single keys in the octave, your saying there are 12 major and 12 minor different chords (group of keys) that can be made by combining those 12 single keys??
The c key (single key) has a relative minor, which would be the A minor (single key)what is the system that says these are related and does it apply to all keys? For example lets just say they are 3 keys apart and i had a b (single key) would its relative be 3 keys apart?
I know this # is sharp and ♭ is flat, but what is the symbol for minor? M?
Also i got a wiki on the circle of fifths and key relations that helped alot!
i now know that all major keys have relative minors.. BUT!
the circle wasnt in order.. CGDAEBF# I noticed if you skip 1 it lines up to be cdef or gab which are in order.. why is that like that?
so from c4 to c5 all the white keys (abcdefg) this is a major?
also i thought a major was this
-*
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-
-*
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-
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-*
Also for the 12 single keys in the octave, your saying there are 12 major and 12 minor different chords (group of keys) that can be made by combining those 12 single keys??
The c key (single key) has a relative minor, which would be the A minor (single key)what is the system that says these are related and does it apply to all keys? For example lets just say they are 3 keys apart and i had a b (single key) would its relative be 3 keys apart?
I know this # is sharp and ♭ is flat, but what is the symbol for minor? M?
Also i got a wiki on the circle of fifths and key relations that helped alot!
i now know that all major keys have relative minors.. BUT!
the circle wasnt in order.. CGDAEBF# I noticed if you skip 1 it lines up to be cdef or gab which are in order.. why is that like that?
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- KVRist
- 441 posts since 30 Apr, 2007
Hopefully this will help. You are trying to learn about a lot of different concepts all at once here.
If you start from C and count up 7 semitones (each white key or black key is a semitone), you should end up on G. That interval, C to G, is called a perfect fifth. These notes are closely related, but that is a topic for another day. G to D is also 7 semitones so also a perfect fifth. If you continue doing this exercise until you get back to C, and write the order down around a circle, you get the circle of fifths.
Setting that aside for just a moment, lets talk about major scales. C major has no sharps or flats. The C major scale goes CDEFGABC. Some people think of the major scale as a pattern of whole steps and half steps. A whole step is 2 semitones. A half step is one. The pattern is: whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half. If you try that pattern starting from C and going up to the next C, you should get all white keys.
Now here is where things get interesting. If you try the same major scale pattern starting from G, you should get all white keys *except* instead of F it will be F#. So G major has one sharp, which is F. So the G major scale goes GABCDEF#G.
If you try the major scale pattern starting from D, you will find that there are 2 sharps, which are F and C.
Starting from A, you will find that there are 3 sharps, which are F, C, and G.
Do you see what is happening here? As the scales go around the circle of fifths, you add one more sharp each time. But ALSO, as you add sharps, the order of the sharps is also following the circle of fifths starting from F! You can keep going like this until you've used all 7 sharps.
With flats, it is very similar except you go the opposite way around the circle (down a fifth each time instead of up). C major has no flats, F major has 1, Bb major has 2, and so forth. And the order of flats follows the circle of fifths in that direction also starting from B. Which also means the order of the sharps is exactly the opposite of the order of the flats.
Now with minor scales, the order of sharps and flats is exactly the same as with the major scales. And it still works the same way as you go around the circle of fifths adding a sharp or taking away a flat. You just have to remember that A minor is the one with no sharps or flats and go from there.
If you start from C and count up 7 semitones (each white key or black key is a semitone), you should end up on G. That interval, C to G, is called a perfect fifth. These notes are closely related, but that is a topic for another day. G to D is also 7 semitones so also a perfect fifth. If you continue doing this exercise until you get back to C, and write the order down around a circle, you get the circle of fifths.
Setting that aside for just a moment, lets talk about major scales. C major has no sharps or flats. The C major scale goes CDEFGABC. Some people think of the major scale as a pattern of whole steps and half steps. A whole step is 2 semitones. A half step is one. The pattern is: whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half. If you try that pattern starting from C and going up to the next C, you should get all white keys.
Now here is where things get interesting. If you try the same major scale pattern starting from G, you should get all white keys *except* instead of F it will be F#. So G major has one sharp, which is F. So the G major scale goes GABCDEF#G.
If you try the major scale pattern starting from D, you will find that there are 2 sharps, which are F and C.
Starting from A, you will find that there are 3 sharps, which are F, C, and G.
Do you see what is happening here? As the scales go around the circle of fifths, you add one more sharp each time. But ALSO, as you add sharps, the order of the sharps is also following the circle of fifths starting from F! You can keep going like this until you've used all 7 sharps.
With flats, it is very similar except you go the opposite way around the circle (down a fifth each time instead of up). C major has no flats, F major has 1, Bb major has 2, and so forth. And the order of flats follows the circle of fifths in that direction also starting from B. Which also means the order of the sharps is exactly the opposite of the order of the flats.
Now with minor scales, the order of sharps and flats is exactly the same as with the major scales. And it still works the same way as you go around the circle of fifths adding a sharp or taking away a flat. You just have to remember that A minor is the one with no sharps or flats and go from there.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
No. C major is not A major. That row is A minor. Both have scales, but a major and relative minor key share the same seven notes, just that as scales they start where they start, on their root note.Defjerm wrote:"all white keys exclusively, from C to C is your C major key, which is represented if you like by the C major scale."
so from c4 to c5 all the white keys (abcdefg) this is a major?
also i thought a major was this
I tried, by the use of quote marks around the use of 'key' in my first remarks on it, to indicate that a key - major, minor 'key' - has more meaning than a note which is found on a key-board. A chord is a group of notes. It might belong to a "key" or not.Defjerm wrote: Also for the 12 single keys in the octave, your saying there are 12 major and 12 minor different chords (group of keys) that can be made by combining those 12 single keys??
This seems to relate to the problem of conflating a key on a keyboard with a key in music. You must learn the diff at once. They are 3 keys apart on the 'board, but in terms of a key signature there is no difference.Defjerm wrote: The c key (single key) has a relative minor, which would be the A minor (single key)what is the system that says these are related and does it apply to all keys? For example lets just say they are 3 keys apart and i had a b (single key) would its relative be 3 keys apart?
The circle goes: C G D A E B/Cb F#/Gb C#/Db Ab Eb Bb F C.Defjerm wrote: i now know that all major keys have relative minors.. BUT!
the circle wasnt in order.. CGDAEBF# I noticed if you skip 1 it lines up to be cdef or gab which are in order.. why is that like that?
It isn't consecutive according to a keyboard because it is a circle of FIFTHS.
C to G is a fifth, et cetera...
On the keyboard, C through G on the white keys is the fifth. 7 semitones = a fifth seems counterintuitive, but that's the convention. Which is more information to go into. Counting according to a scale, which is different than counting every semitone. A scale is a mix of tones and semitones, or steps and half steps.
The other poster is right, you're biting off more than you can chew at one time. I'm trying to give you as much as possible in one go, which isn't the best idea. But in for a penny, in for a pound...
Intervals between notes are named according to the octave; there are seven names, the eighth is called an octave.
As there are 12 notes to an octave, the names of the intervals, 'fifths' for instance, are qualified.
1 semitone = a minor second.
2 = a major second
3 = a minor third
4 = a major third
5 = a perfect fourth
6 = an augmented fourth or diminished fifth
7 = a perfect fifth
8 = a minor sixth (or augmented fifth)
9 = a major sixth
10 = a minor seventh
11 = a major seventh
12 = an octave
the circle of fifths proceed according to perfect fifths.
Last edited by jancivil on Tue May 31, 2011 9:40 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 1800 posts since 10 Feb, 2007
Check this out:
www.musictheory.net
If you choose the classic version, you can even get an offline version. Very clear and very complete.
www.musictheory.net
If you choose the classic version, you can even get an offline version. Very clear and very complete.
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- KVRist
- 487 posts since 23 Jan, 2004
Here's how I was introduced to keys and scales.
Start on any note.
Go up in this sequence:
Tone Tone Tone Semitone Tone Tone Tone Semitone.
This is a major scale. The key is whatever note you started with. You can keep going for as many octaves as you like.
Try this sequence starting on a few different notes and you should twig what's going on.
Start on any note.
Go up in this sequence:
Tone Tone Tone Semitone Tone Tone Tone Semitone.
This is a major scale. The key is whatever note you started with. You can keep going for as many octaves as you like.
Try this sequence starting on a few different notes and you should twig what's going on.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
[just for clarity] Your typo will be confusing: <tone tone semitone, tone tone tone semitone> sums to an octave.adydub wrote:Here's how I was introduced to keys and scales.
Start on any note.
Go up in this sequence:
Tone Tone Tone Semitone Tone Tone Tone Semitone.
"The key is whatever note you started with." - while not wrong, 'you started with' may be confusing language.
The key accords with the tonic note; C is the tonic note of C or C minor.
You can start a musical passage 'in key' with any note belonging to the key.
EG: the row A to a is 'in C major' if C is the tonic, the central note, of the key. If A is that tonic, that is an A natural minor scale.
That is going to be confusing as well but should be addressed, since I think calling the same 7 notes C major and A minor both seems confusing. The context of key is missing so far. The concept of 'central note' owes to musical context. For example, the key is going to be in A minor and not C major because of how the tune goes, or how the chords work, if you're not given a tune...
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- KVRAF
- 5524 posts since 5 May, 2007 from Mars Colony
Since I think it's clear the OP is starting from square one, it might help to understand what a "key" is. There are 12 notes which repeat over and over again. You get the same notes repeating, but at a higher or lower pitch.
Within those twelve notes, some of them can be singled out to form a scale. Many scales exist, but most of them don't use all twelve notes. The "major" scale, uses only seven of the twelve available notes.
If you start on C on a piano or MIDI keyboard, you can just play all the white keys and you will have the C major scale. If you start on A, you can play all the white keys and have the A minor scale. Here you can see the relationship of major and relative minor---they use all the same notes, but start on a different note. The relative minor of C major is A minor.
The trick is this: you can have a major or minor key start on any note, and the notes will be different, but the relationships between the notes will be the same as the relationships between the notes in C major and A minor. You are just taking the same scale and shifting it around so it starts on different notes.
Within those twelve notes, some of them can be singled out to form a scale. Many scales exist, but most of them don't use all twelve notes. The "major" scale, uses only seven of the twelve available notes.
If you start on C on a piano or MIDI keyboard, you can just play all the white keys and you will have the C major scale. If you start on A, you can play all the white keys and have the A minor scale. Here you can see the relationship of major and relative minor---they use all the same notes, but start on a different note. The relative minor of C major is A minor.
The trick is this: you can have a major or minor key start on any note, and the notes will be different, but the relationships between the notes will be the same as the relationships between the notes in C major and A minor. You are just taking the same scale and shifting it around so it starts on different notes.
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JumpingJackFlash JumpingJackFlash https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=44005
- KVRian
- 1227 posts since 10 Oct, 2004
The following may be of some use:Defjerm wrote:I dont even know where to start.
An Introduction to Music Theory
Scales, Modes and Chords
Sharps, Flats and how to work out Keys
An Introduction to Key-Signatures
Unfamiliar words can be looked up in my Glossary of musical terms.
Also check out my Introduction to Music Theory.
Also check out my Introduction to Music Theory.